Learning 3D, Questions Options

[HERD]

Nope, using bad geometry
Clone tower---->scale 105%---> turbosmooth * 2 (to multiply polygons)---> select polys for moss (delete others)--->
extrude 5---> turbosmoth---> scale back---> texture (material with bump)

Edit: Or using a box with lots of segments (same process)

(1) extruded vertices + smooth (2)amount of moss - scaling (3)without smooth looks almost like leaves!
 moss_sample.png ( 952.08k ) Number of downloads: 8


Here are mixed and unmixed next to each other:
 mixed_moss.png ( 847.07k ) Number of downloads: 14


This post has been edited by HERD: Jan 13 2009, 11:49 AM

[Sir-Kill]

Nope, using bad geometry

heh heh as long as it is working for you

This post has been edited by Sir-Kill: Jan 13 2009, 11:51 AM

[Sir-Kill]

um sorry that might have sounded mean, I did not mean it that way. I did find you response funny tho

[HERD]

The meaner the better! SK, don't worry, I am taking it all the right way

Q about missing .tga files in speedtree: can I make my own or how to modify existing? Know nothing about it and when trying to save file, it loses transparency.

[Valiant]

Nope, using bad geometry
Clone tower---->scale 105%---> turbosmooth * 2 (to multiply polygons)---> select polys for moss (delete others)--->
extrude 5---> turbosmoth---> scale back---> texture (material with bump)

Edit: Or using a box with lots of segments (same process)

(1) extruded vertices + smooth (2)amount of moss - scaling (3)without smooth looks almost like leaves!
 moss_sample.png ( 952.08k ) Number of downloads: 8


Here are mixed and unmixed next to each other:
 mixed_moss.png ( 847.07k ) Number of downloads: 14

Yeah, it´s just like SK said, as long as it works for you, it´s ok. But if you´ll go into a real complex scene, with let´s say 1mil. polygons, you´ll pay attention to every polygon that is not really needed. I would suggest to think about using normal bump mapping, which can make the very same result without increasing polygon count. E.g. Photoshop Normal Bump plugin will do normal bump maps for you from standard colored texture...

Just an idea, no offence, of course, the work looks great.

[HERD]

None taken
Unfortunately my knowledge of tools is still very limited, so for now I try to get models to look as close as possible to the desired result no matter the cost and improve and simplify later. Poly count doesn't bother me too much only because I render parts of the picture and put them together in photoshop, later these bad habits will bite me in the ...
So, all suggestions are very valuable now.

[Sir-Kill]

.tga uses alpha channel. You can add a channel view in photoshop just like a layer view in fact you can use it in the same window.

.png uses transparency and not an alpha channel. these might be easier to deal with.

yeah normal maps rock. it is also fairly easy to create them in 3ds too and are more accurate.

This post has been edited by Sir-Kill: Jan 14 2009, 03:18 AM

[Valiant]

Yep, SK is right, 3ds can make normal maps, too... And they are accurate because they are created directly from a model.

This post has been edited by Valiant: Jan 19 2009, 06:14 PM

[HERD]

Didn't have time to do Normal maps, but mix maps are working (have to have the right map though).
At least now I have an idea what you, guys, were talking about
 mossmixbump.png ( 285.58k ) Number of downloads: 17


This post has been edited by HERD: Jan 17 2009, 07:09 PM

[Sir-Kill]

um just so there is no confusion Val and I are talking about something called a "Normals Bump Map"

it is a much more defined bumping system then grayscale bumps + you can grayscale bump maps with normal bump maps, thus having 2 bump maps.

If you have NVIDIA normal map plugin you can take any diffuse map and open it in photoshop run the plugin on it and it will convert it to a normals map. this takes very little time but is 100% accurate.

It is important to note that: most tutorials will have you making a lower poly model to use. this is not a 100% accurate statement.
you can clone an exact replica for this purpose or a 1 poly plane. the idea is to make a 2d map. if you use an exact replica you have to assign a UVW map flatting modifier first. if your model is not hugely complex (with the mesh going in many directions say a jagged cliff face) you're better off using the 1 poly plane.

some/most of the tutorials you will find on normals are about human faces iirc.
but say you want a simple bridge made of rough sawn lumber you can make the model with very high detail this will come with a very high poly count as well. putting in the saw marks (in the pic above) and individual boards (Right)
We will create a 'normals map' for the boards and a 'grayscale map' for the saw marks
Now if you make a model with the shape of the lower pic using extruded rounded rectangles and convert them to poly.
then use the attach function to make them one object.

Then create a plane about the same length and width as your model name them something that you can know which one is which (I call mine high and low for the poly count)
Align them so that the plane is just below the high poly model
(make sure that your low poly plane is selected)
hit 0 (zero) on your keyboard, this brings up a menu.

this is all from memory so if it does not work check a 'how to make normals map tut'
there is a place asking where you want to save your file. do that.
click 'Pick'. this asks what model you want to use for the high poly model, so pick that one.
Under Output click 'Add' and a list will pop up select 'normals'

the default extension is .TGA but you can use any format, I use png so I can see it in windows explorer to see if it made it correctly.

if you look at the modifier stack of your low poly it should have a project modifier on it.
click on that making it highlighted in yellow.
and click the + to expand it.
the default should be fine.
scroll down the roll outs to Cage rollout and check shaded (this is for your own visual benefit it has not other purpose)
important click reset. this resets the cage to something closer to where you want it.
Now you want to go to push. you will push the cage to encompass your high poly model. so as you push look in the viewport to se when it is fully encased.
the shaded cage should be on the outside of your high poly model EVERYWHERE. if not you will get solid red (rbg 255,0,0) instead of pastel colors. you will have to go back and move the vertices of the CAGE until they are correct .
once that is done bring back your 'render to texture' menu or hit the 0 key again.
depending on your poly count and render size it can take some time so for now just use the 128 size. once you see that there is no blemishes you can choose a larger map size.

once everything is perfect open you mat. edit. click on the bump slot and select normal bump. load your map you just created (making sure it is added to the low poly model and you have hidden the high poly model).
hit F9 to render your scene.

to increase or decrease you normal bump amount change it from 1 to something different but careful making it too high might cause 3ds to crash or it did mine) consider 2.5 fairly high.

now you can add a fine lines bump map to make the saw marks or some distressed marks
and you will be done

Nice normals tut here.

This post has been edited by Sir-Kill: Jan 17 2009, 03:58 PM

[Valiant]

Great tut, SK... just as I thought...

[Valiant]

Didn't have time to do Normal maps, but mix maps are working (have to have the right map though).
At least now I have an idea what you, guys, were talking about
 mossmixbump.png ( 285.58k ) Number of downloads: 17

Good stuff

[Sir-Kill]

thanks hope it made sense.

EDIT: I ordered my comp parts this morning so I should be back to doing 3d soon.

This post has been edited by Sir-Kill: Jan 20 2009, 03:33 AM

[HERD]

 42_moss.png ( 148.85k ) Number of downloads: 1
 42_moss_Normal.png ( 176.5k ) Number of downloads: 1


NIVIDIA plug-in does what I want very well - every little needle gets bumped
 mossNormalbump300.png ( 415.86k ) Number of downloads: 11


Will take more time for me to understand the whole unwrap thing.

Edit: So, the difference between grayscale and normal bumps is only in the level of detail?
And when it is done with unwrap, even more so?

This post has been edited by HERD: Jan 21 2009, 08:28 AM

[Sir-Kill]

nice
a softer opacity map might help softening the hard edges of the grass

unwrapping: think of how you would apply a a flat paper map to an orange, unless you are a master at origami most of us would peal the orange and lay its skin flat and cut the map in pieces then glue it on to the skin then place the skin back on the orange.
in essence this is what the unwrap modifier does. it will flatten the UVW points then you place them where you want them. this is useful on complex models.
the default is 45 this is the angle to which the pieces relative to their neighboring face will be cut, the higher the number the less pieces.

my suggestion is not to try to learn this on a complex model with complex textures but on a simple one until you understand the concept.

yes LoD think of normals as high def TV vs. a standard TV

no unwrap will not produce more detail it just allows you to place the texture coordinates correctly.

[HERD]

I understand the concept of "pealing the orange", but can't imagine how it will be modified later. Each part of the unwrapped map textured separately?

Tried a different way to make broken plaster (spline-extrude-chamfer). Doesn't look as good as I thought it would.

 plaster.png ( 522.34k ) Number of downloads: 16

[Sir-Kill]

well I could post screen shots but my comp is still down, my memory (4 gb!) got delivered today but still waiting for mobo maybe tomorrow.
but if your model changes your coordinates might need to be modified again too.

hmm yeah not so good but you are trying new things this is good you might want to keep the extrusion to a smaller number. keeping it a bit more subtle.

when you use the unwrap modifier it flattens the vertices of your model (not your map) (again depending on how you use it) on to your texture map. the vertices become uvw points (edges become segments, etc) this tells 3ds where to place texture on the face/poly.

try this in 2d; make a map with 3 distinctive colors (primary colors are a good choice). save it.

in 3d; create a cube, un-check the add mapping coordinates.
load your 2d map and add it to your model.
add a uvw unwrap modifier to it and use flatten or normal flatten (whatever it is called) it should show 3 to 6 boxes these are the faces of your cube. and you can move them anywhere you want for different looks.

you can choose vertice (default), segment, or poly. to make your selections
you can break joining vertices, edges, or polys and you can stitch them back together. (I think in the tools pulldown)
play around with making them perfectly aligned or really messed up.

but once you have them set you can collapse the (modifier) stack and mess with the models vertice positions and the mapping stays with it
then if you want to change the mapping coordinates again just add another unwrap on the stack.

This post has been edited by Sir-Kill: Jan 21 2009, 11:10 PM

[HERD]

A-ha, now I understand how it assigns texture to whatever surface you create in flattened map (and then can be modified with stitching and other tools)

 99untitled.png ( 93.88k ) Number of downloads: 10


But here it gave me only one texture when flattened - I had 3!

 999untitled.png ( 97.13k ) Number of downloads: 8


Edit: Sorry, after actually thinking for one moment, realized that this was the purpose of the unwrap map - all textures in one.

This post has been edited by HERD: Jan 22 2009, 12:31 PM

[HERD]

My first unwrap map

 untitledtext1.png ( 331.42k ) Number of downloads: 13


So, textures should be as high resolution as possible, the size of the original texture map doesn't matter much?

[Sir-Kill]

very nice,
only one major problem is a AOL search toolbar on you comp AAaaAaawww! you should run some malware utilities on your system
if you are to use a map and unwrap feature like that then yes high resolution. think of your render size of that building you image does not have to be bigger than that in fact maybe 1/2 the size if you are also adding bump mapping.
it is also real nice to be able to map out stone arches and other rounded, curved, or twisted objects

EDIT:
oh sorry missed your first post.
you can remove the annoying the grid (you can also snap to grid but I never use it) by going to
Options, Advanced Options and un-checking the grid.
also un-checking the use custom bitmap size on an image that is not square will keep the aspect ratio.

This post has been edited by Sir-Kill: Jan 22 2009, 07:16 PM