IA classes tier list Options

[HTRT]

Hi, out of random enthusiasm for bg2 and Improved anvil I decided to make an attempt at a tier list for the classes. Feel free to share your thoughts, ideas and reactions if you feel like it 🙂 A tier list is more about subjectivity and fun than objective truth !

I only included “legit” classes in this tier list. Legit could be defined as something you can acquire if you play the mod more or so like it is intended. For example, a kensai 24 dual mage 26 is excluded and would of course have made its way into the S tier.

Similarly, I only included the dual class options that seem truly noteworthy to me.

Note : multiclass are written x/y and dual classes are written x-y.

Happy new year everyone 🙂

TIER LIST

S TIER (the game changer classes)

Necromancer (Protagonist) : Doesn’t give overall as satisfying an experience as the sorcerer, but because of silence immunity is without contest the strongest arcane spell caster in the game. Your saving throws against devastating necromantic spells have a +2 bonus, and your own necromantic spells offer a -2 to the enemy saving throw. The lack of illusion spells is not that bad, considering it can be provided by a second arcane caster such as a multi/dual class character or even a sorcerer when it is needed. This is the only weakness of a necromancer. Otherwise you get a guaranteed access to Memory of the Apprenti, a refined Recast Vital Energy, immunity to silence and the plethora of arcane domination tools : slay, blindness, hold, emotion, malison, feeblemind, polymorph, web, elemental/magic damage barrage, lowering magical resistance, breaches and dispels, protections, petrification, grease, summons, wishes for rests, buffs, intoxications, alacrity, prismatic rays, maze, wail of the banshee, ruby rays.

Sorcerer (Neera, Imoen) : A sorcerer can solo a very big part of the game starting in Irenicus’ dungeon. Can get any spell you want no matter your quest order (Wish, RVE, advanced summon monsters, sphere of chaos (ToB only), time stop, can get up to +6 casting speed, can deplete spellbooks in a very effective way provided the spell picks are good. If you like messing around, Neera can use Nahal’s Reckless Dweomer to get access to stuff like Combat Ready, spreading an area of effect stoneskin, foreknowledge, black blade of disaster, etc. Can get silenced, but can’t have everything !

If you don’t have a necromancer protagonist, you most likely want Neera, and maybe you actually want both. These two classes are so strong that a run without at least either one of them feels like forcing yourself through a huge handicap.

A TIER (the better classes)
Dragon disciple : Even though Dragon disciples don’t have (yet) access to the (un)nerfed spell progression tables, they are still sorcerers with one less spell per day; furthermore, the armor class and fire immunity are convenient.

Wild mage : The only reason Wild mages didn’t make it into S tier is their lack of Recast Vital Energy. They are still immensely powerful, getting earlier casting of acquired spells, using Nahal’s effects, casting remove magic at potentially +5 levels, spamming whatever spell they need at high level and recovering 4 of them for one limited wish, being evil for a nice change, using staff of the magi and perhaps even the legacy gauntlets and robe of eloquence from the four mod. Finally, they have one extra spell slot per day and access to every school.

Avenger (Jaheira) : A wonderful and strong summon, a good spell repertoire, great fighter capabilities when buffed, potential immunity to silence, the originality of the weapons make the avenger a great class to bring along. Has kind of the quickest access to critical strike harm for power gaming purposes.

Can get quite flat footed and borderline useless late game when targeted by a successful remove magic or a purge magic. The reason is that an Avenger requires several rounds to set up well and they do not have a good tach0 and damage if they use their fighter HLAS without buffs. Still overall a powerful class worthy of the A tier.

Auramaster (Cernd) : A very powerful spellcaster that barely makes it out of S tier because of a lack of universal efficiency caused by a somewhat restrictive spell pool and possibilities compared to arcane casters. Still, the immunity to silence, the casting speed, certain awesome spells such as Creeping Doom, the alacrity and the inconsequential disadvantages make this class a mighty one.

Shaman : I have not tried the modified shaman yet unfortunately, only experimented with it in Irenicus’ dungeon with the console. Circumventing some of the most dangerous stuff in IA is unique and very powerful. You can cancel a greater doom and a high level and hard to dispel greater malison or doom, you can feel comfortable with your paladin in the party, you can help a ton with greater silences, you can pound at amber golems without fear, you can make your ac tank even harder to hit… Your healing abilities are tremendous and give the capacity to control the fight a lot better. Furthermore, summons are often great tanks at higher difficulty levels and healing them with such precision and speed is great. You even have a spell that resembles the protector’s mental equilibrium although incomplete I think. With Demogorgon I would assume you can reach 4 casting speed, which means instant long distance regenerations on anything at will. I can see a necromancer finally facing dragons like its nothing without getting their resistances lowered or getting greater doomed to oblivion. Ethereal distribution bypasses magical resistance and lowers tach0, which is a very rarely resisted effect in IA. A shame it doesn’t affect golems and undeads but still. The HLA that serves as a healing contingency when near death seems awesome, because it looks like it can prevent a shaman dying from 250 fire damage (ancient dragon breath) and instead receive no damage and stay alive, discharging the HLA daily usage. FInally, spirit form allows you to reach 100% physical damage resistance because it can stack with hardiness and the improved invisibility seems coupled with a spell immunity : divination that is not targetable by ruby rays, at least from the enemy scripts. This means that most of the times if you keep spirit form up your shaman will not be targeted by successful breaches because enemies try not to teach and thus don’t cast breach on an improved invisible character. That is good news, because awesome stuff like storm shell can be dispelled or breached. On top of all of that you still have pleasant spells such as creeping doom, animal summoning and natural restoral. Anyway, shaman seems at least like a solid A to me.

Vagrant (Protagonist, Party member) : Almost full fighter progression, good resistances, convenient immunity to poison/disease and, most importantly, swanmays.

I rated both protagonist and party member as A tier because the protagonist’s main advantages i.e. Judgement Day, Flail of Defending and Wounding, Lakesider’s axe and Red Coral Armor come quite later into the game and are still not enough to reach S tier. The saving throws vs spells are lacking and the number of attacks per round/physical damage output are lacking. To me, what gives the vagrant a very easy A spot is simply the swanmays.

Kensai : This is the best fighting class when you need to hit something and hit it hard. Excels at both dual wielding and two handed weapon styles. Requires good positioning but rewards immensely on a LoB difficulty setting for example. Can be dwarf and can make good use of spirit armor. Will pretty much guarantee a successful assault on the Rakshasa prince by himself.

A dwarven kensai dual wielding Judgement’s day and water’s edge with the big metal unit and the belt of the skillful blade, with proficiencies like **warhammer ** two weapon style ***warhammer ***scimitar *two weapon style *****longsword *scimitar is a very dangerous beast.

Riskbreaker : Even though I always preferred kensais to riskbreakers even for dual wielding, the riskbreaker still makes it easily into the A tier. The improved haste is convenient, the blur is great later on for awesome armor class and saves, the full fighter progression is awesome and the abilities are fantastic. Makes for a great playing experience imo, because eventually this fighter can be in the thick of the battle and not care much about positioning. The on hit effects are icing on the cake. To me though, riskbreakers lack the decisive melee efficiency of the kensais in terms of dominating tach0 and real damage output.

Inquisitor (Keldorn) : The return of successful dispels despite being of a lower level than the target, combined with the new bracers, the half attack reward, Carsomyr usage and the new Keldorn’s armor are enough to propel this one to the A tier imo.

Fighter/Mage : Multiclass characters got nerfed in IA, but an elven or a gnomish fighter/mage is still a very powerful asset. I personally have a preference for multiclass characters over dual classes (for instance I prefer an elven fighter/mage over a berseker-mage). The reason is I find that they scale better in the game, making good use of fighter HLAS later on if they get caught flat footed, purged, etc. With this one you eventually have full mage casting without alacrity and good wishes, invulnerability in melee while being able to pound hard. You can go with protection from magical weapons to fight alone against everything, or reach a very good armor class as a secondary tank on the front. You can dual wield a black blade of disaster with the githzerai blade, or use a few greater whirlwinds with the dragon lord halberd, all the while pressuring the enemy mages into debuffing them and being almost impervious to melee. I tend to prefer an elven fighter/mage to a gnomish fighter/illusionist, because I love soul armor, having the possibility of using chain contingency horrid wiltings, the elven ancient expertise potion, the immunity (almost) to sleep and charm as well as the tach0 bonuses with certain weapons. That being said, a gnomish fighter/illusionist is very welcome to the A tier as well.

Cleric/Ranger : With Greater restoration and druidic spells, awesome armor class, devastating melee damage, fighter HLAS, this character sometimes timidly knocks on the S tier door. I prefer this one to the Ranger-Cleric dual class for reasons stated above. This character is a high armor class front tank, of which one goes a long way into making a run a lot smoother. It can solo in a vacuum several elite fire giants despite not having protection from magical weapons, which tells a lot about its powers in my opinion. A party that does not include such an effective front ac tank is setting themself for a harder run I think. Can get relatively flat footed after a purge magic, but contrary to the fighter/mage the ranger/cleric’s natural high armor class allows for a quick ironskin and life goes on.

Fighter/Mage/Thief : I would consider swapping my elven fighter/mage for this class if it had access to the elven ancient expertise potion I think. The progression to HLAS is crippled even more for triple classes, so this character takes time to grow. In the meanwhile though, it still offers comparable capabilities to the fighter/mage while bringing to the table the psychological satisfaction of thieving jobs well done (lol). More seriously, the fighter/mage/thief, contrary to the fighter/mage/cleric and other mage multiclasses, actually retains improved alacrity. This means that in the end game, using foreknowledge, the amulet of power and perhaps the gloves from the Four, you can have yourself a tiny mage that can unleash their spellbook. Furthermore (and more realistically), the improved alacrity can be used to secure two rounds of a combined assassination + greater whirlwind + critical strike + power attack with either the staff of the ram, a blade blade of disaster with the dagger of assassins, or even as a shapeshifted iron golem. This is a treatment that a noble rakshasa, for example, does not appreciate. Overall a very good class, more than people seem to give it credit for in my opinion.

Fighter/Mage/Cleric : A worthy candidate for the front liner AC tank, and has a feeling of legitimacy because the ranger/cleric or ranger-cleric is not truly supposed to have druid spells anymore according to Beamdog. Suffers from much delayed HLAS, but is surprisingly powerful through the entire saga compared to the fighter/mage/thief, probably because of the clerical buffs such as righteous magic. Has access to the elven ancient expertise potion, which is awesome. Can reach better AC than ranger cleric multi or dual eventually thanks to armor/shield and illusion spells, but such an AC is less natural because it does not come from worn full plate mail. So if the FMC is caught by a purge magic, it will be in a tougher spot than the rc multi. On the other hand, you do get protection from magical weapons as well as spell immunity:abujration as well a cleric spells in sequencers fun. As a fighter you get a very respectable black blade of diasaster + hammer of thor combination with maximum damage every hit from righteous damage, as well as fighter HLAS. I found the amount of clerical spells to be acceptable despite the slow progression.

Ranger-Cleric : Similar to the ranger/cleric multiclass, this dual class is immensely powerful as well. You benefit from a quick cleric level progression, which means faster access to skeleton warriors, greater restoration, strong dispels, hard to dispel buffs. You have a similarly awesome AC as the ranger/cleric; actually, you get the best AC faster because of your faster access to spells such as shield of the archon. When you do set up, you are a good fighter almost as if you had been a full ranger cleric multiclass to begin with, albeit without the HLAS which I love. More flat footed than a multiclass ranger/cleric if you get a remove/purge magic because of this lack of HLAS, but I certainly understand why so many players love this class.

Kensai-Thief : Most likely as a kensai 13, because if you kensai 7 or 9 you probably would have been better off being a berseker, this is a very powerful class because of the current state of use any items. You can use a plethora of fantastic items obviously not designed for a greedy thief and by virtue of that alone become really strong as a fighter and more importantly impervious to physical damage and magic. If you have to gold to provide this character with the best items, it is without contest the best candidate for “two-handed weapon specialist” as it will get 9 attacks per round if I remember well. You do not have fighter HLAS, but Sarevok’s new sword does grant you critical strike (although it annoyingly stops your attack routine when it casts). You can thus use critical backstabs with the bonuses from Kensai. This is more powerful than the berseker-thief described below, but it requires more babysitting and not everyone (including myself) love babysitting a character even if it is to be worth it.

Berseker-Thief : You achieve similar results as the kensai-thief described above, but since you dual at 7 or 9 you are actually useful for the entire game. What you lose in power from the half attack at level 13 and the better permanent bonuses to tach0 and damage, you at least compensate a little bit for with your berserk ability, with its various immunities including the prized one from level drain. Still, a nice class to bring along and that can handle the thief business when it matters (for ocd people like me).

Berseker-Mage : Level 7, 9 and 13 berseker all make some amount of sense imo. This mage can use improved alacrity although the wishes cannot be a rest or time stop alacrity combo. Still, you may weak vecna and reach good tach0 with tenser’s transformation. The berserk ability is a nice icing on top. Very powerful character if only for the lack of HLAS which to me lead to poorer scaling Realistically, you will have another (single class) arcane caster and this one will be wearing vecna, so your berseker-mage will have a robe of the archmagi most likely and will be…fighting. You do get a lot more castings of protection from magical weapons compared to a fighter/mage multiclass and overall you act as a much better support mage for the entirety of the game. When you do set up for fighting, similarly to the ranger-cleric dual, you do end up pouding well benefit from actual grand mastery and perhaps even the extra half attack at level 13. This is a good two handed weapon fighter, although I love mine to be able to use both quarterstaves for blunt damage and combination of a black blade of disaster and the githzerai blade in general. Similarly to the fighter/mage multiclass, you may wield a shield and be an excellent secondary tank for a stronger front.

B TIER (the good classes)

Conjurer (Edwin) : The lack of foreknowledge hurts, but you still do everything a mage does and your enemy saves fail more often against the likes of flame arrow, glitterdust, symbols and prismatic rays. The lack of true seeing can be compensated quite easily in a 6 character party.

Necromancer (Party member) : Losing illusion is the least problematic school I guess. Still, you don’t have the amulet of hades, probably not the memory of the apprenti either and no recast vital energy. But you are, after all, a mage in all respects, and thus powerful.

Protector (Valygar) : A nice balanced class. Valygar has good gear, but the class does not make it into A tier. You enjoy full fighter progression although no grand mastery anywhere, you provide minor healing spells that provide a smoother gaming experience, you can save party members from negative ailments which is nice, although the protector themself do not have that good saving throws vs spells (the savior being vulnerable to the ailments to begin with is not optimal). Racial combat is nice and original; the negative effects make it hard to be satisfied when you actually use it. With say a vagrant protagonist, Valygar can be using his katana and the flail of defending and wounding, which make him quite a decent character, although nothing truly awesome.

Archer : It certainly isn’t as bad as it seems in IA. Missile weapons find many unexpected usages throughout the game, Gesen deals piercing damage and called shot offers unique and awesome debuffs. The ranged thac0 is wonderful even though tach0 and damage bonuses are not implemented as advertised (lower than expected from +1 per 3 levels according to the table and gameplay). Archers are still rangers as well : even though they cannot specialize, they may still wear boots of the ranger lord and even use Judgement Day and Flail of Defending and Wounding for example.

Now that they fixed the enemy saving throws on LoB, an archer is probably indispensable (and thus S tier) for lowering spell saving throws with fire seeds in conjunction with critical strike harm or sphere of chaos.

Barbarian (Minsc) : A barbarian is a good fighter. As a two handed weapon fighter, you synergize a little bit better with the poor armor class values you can reach, but you are still good with dual wielding. You may achieve 70% physical resistance with either 2 handed or 2 hand fighting, probably more with the new armor and/or judgement day. Still, even though the barbarian rage immunities feel great as well as the movement speed and immunity to backstab, you may only specialize in weapons and cannot reach that good of a tach0 and damage output. This cannot put you over the B tier, when the A tier is filled with the likes of riskbreaker and berseker-mage.

Berseker (Korgan) : A single class berseker is not as appealing or original as a barbarian, but it is still surprisingly good. You have grand mastery, wear full plate, make yourself immune to lots of stuff and get bonuses to tach0 and damage. Still, you cannot pretend you belong in the A tier.

Dwarven defender : You are some kind of mix between a berseker and a barbarian : you wear full plate, you don’t achieve grand mastery but do get 4 points in relevant weapons, no berserk no rage but good saves from your defensive stance combined to being a dwarf. Your defensive stance does not combine with hardiness, thus making the efficiency of the class questionable. You do not have particular incentives to maximize armor class; being a dwarf puts your dexterity to 17 after all. You still function overall as a good B tier fighter with interesting perks.

Paladin : You enjoy a nifty bonus to your saving throws, you wear carsomy if you want to and you benefit from decent bracers and an extra half attack from Demogorgon. You are not nearly as great as the inquisitor, but despite having only achieved martial specialization you are a quite decent addition to a party with your clerical spells.

Cavalier : Similar to the paladin although better min maxed. Not much more to say.

Undead Hunter : An interesting choice, certainly better than the vanilla paladin although on the same tier. Your specific abilities feel good, but they will not allow you to reach the A tier feeling of the classes up there.

Blackguard (Dorn) : You still enjoy the +2 to saving throws and maybe can wear improved human flesh for a change. You still get your minor cleric spell casting which is good because this includes armor of faith. Your aura of despair has a great effect but does not pierce magic resistance and doesn’t have a high spell level as far as affecting stuff like rakshasas. You cannot wear the new paladin bracers but you are, after all, immune to level drain and fear which is no small feat. You are still without question more interesting than a vanilla fighter and thus claim the B tier easily.

Swashbuckler (Hexatt) : Certainly a good class and hexatt mixes in a good strength and certain immunities. Your weapon choices are limited and you struggle at reaching high attacks per round which work the best with your swashbuckler abilities. The main way to do so is with scimitars like belm or water’s edge, but there’s an opportunity cost when such a blade could have been used by a kensai for instance. Your saving throws are not great unless you buff and your elemental resistances are lacking as well. Still, swashbucklers have been made very much playable years ago and this shows with Hexatt. A strong B tier choice.

Fighter/Cleric : A (dwarven) fighter/cleric is nothing spectacular, but it is still good. Just like a berseker-cleric is still good, in a way. You enjoy the dwarven saving throws, you get fighter HLAS, you distribute greater restoration even though you hurt your level progression, you use good blunt weapons with righteous magic, you get great ac although the lack of ironskin hurts you. A good party member, although almost never used I think.

Fighter/Druid : You use exotic druid weapons that have been buffed in the recent years, you enjoy the poison immunity and the elemental resistances of the druid, you do get HLAS, and although you do not get righteous magic or greater restoration druidic spells like insects are still quite valuable. You do get uses of natural restoral and you may use treefolk’s arm. More importantly, you can use iron skin and may actually wear full plate with it. A good pick, but just like the dwarven fighter/cleric I doubt this class has seen much usage over the years (sorry Chak).

Cleric of Lathander-Mage : Probably dualed from cleric 9, this is a cute little combination that I discovered at some point. Serves well in a party that is dominated by druids, but in which you would still love to enjoy protection from evil, aid, chant, restoration and stuff like that. You may use vecna, just like a berseker-mage, with which you can distribute your clerical spells even better. You are still a full fledged mage with alacrity although inferior wishes and you can actually pound well in melee with your boon of lathander and something like a black blade of disaster and the hammer of thor. You can get 6 attacks per round on melee and reach a good tach0 with tenser’s transformation and champion’s strength if for some reason you need to act like a fighter. I put this in the B tier because you are using this instead of say a berseker-mage or a ranger-cleric, two obviously much better and popular dual classes.

Berseker-Cleric : A quite decent pick, but the lack of iron skin will forever make you feel incomplete as opposed to a ranger-cleric. Your spell casting will get interrupted on the front line because at least a critical strike from the enemy side is always hiding at the corner. But with your quick cleric progression, powerful berserk ability and grand mastery usage, you are certainly worthy of this tier.

Fighter-Cleric (Anomen) : This entry is mostly for Anomen, as I fail to see why you would make a fighter dual cleric when you can be a berseker dual cleric instead. This is inferior to the berseker cleric despite being in the same tier, but the difference is not that huge. You have grand mastery which feels great, but the lack of iron skin defeats the purpose of the combination imo. It is underwhelming in a world of ranger clerics, but it is still an acceptable combination to use.

Berseker-Druid : Berserk helps compensating for your somewhat low divine caster saves vs spells. You achieve grand mastery in your exotic druid weapons AND you do get iron skin just like your multiclass counterparty. Contrary to the ranger-cleric or berseker-cleric or berseker-mage dual classes, you may not cast a spell to achieve a tach0 as though you were a fighter of a similar level to your casting class. This makes this class rather underwhelming, but still kind of good, once again because druidic spells are awesome.

Wizard Slayer-Thief : Redeemed by use any item, this peculiar combo is not as powerful as the kensai or berseker variants, but the spell casting failure seems to work against many, many opponents in IA. And you can spread it via fire seeds for example. Anyway, you still enjoy most of the benefits of these other fighter dual thief variants that were spectacular.

Swashbuckler-Mage : Best dualed at swashbuckler 9 I would guess. A cute combination that is actually not that bad in melee, being potentially able to dual wield a black blade of disaster with water’s edge under tenser’s transformation. Plus the swashbuckler on hit effects. Plus being pretty much a full fledged mage with alacrity but fewer wishes options. Definitely worthy of this tier as it is hard to truly compete with the berseker-mage that sits comfortably in the A tier.

Thief-Mage (Nalia) : Should be strictly inferior to a swashbuckler 9-mage but Nalia does get a pretty awesome ring that means a lot. Other than that, it behaves similarly to the swashbuckler-mage.

Monk : Monks got great improvements at some point, but you still end up with some kind of fighter that has trouble dealing something else than blunt damage and does not contribute with casting or proper tanking or anything really. You do get that risk breaker feeling at some point, but then again you are not wielding fearsome weapons. This can make the class somewhat boring. Still definitely playable and even good.

Sun soul monk (Rasaad) : Overall this does not differ much from a vanilla monk.

Dark moon monk : Overall this does not differ much from a vanilla monk.

C TIER (the playable classes but meh)

Diviner : You are still a mage after all, but you are giving away conjuration which means no flame arrow, no prismatic rays, no summons and more. Thus a relatively poor choice.

Illusionist : Giving away necromancy hurts you more than giving away illusion, but you are closer to the B tier as an Illusionist than any other mage on this tier.

Abjurer : You are losing improved haste and haste, polymorph, ruby ray. This is a poor choice, although not as bad as the transmuter obviously.

Invoker : The saving throw advantage with evocation is probably useful, but giving away greater malison and emotion feels bad.

Enchanter : A stronger emotion yes and you resist these enchanting spells better, but no magic missile, no lightning bolt and others. It is not fantastic.

Priest of Lathander : Just like the shaman, I have not yet played the new clerics in a run; I only messed around with the console. I will copy paste this and only say I feel the changes are cool, original and most of them go in the right direction, but powerwise these clerics still do not seem to be above the C tier at most.

Priest of Helm : Just like the shaman, I have not yet played the new clerics in a run; I only messed around with the console. I will copy paste this and only say I feel the changes are cool, original and most of them go in the right direction, but powerwise these clerics still do not seem to be above the C tier at most.

Priest of Talos : Just like the shaman, I have not yet played the new clerics in a run; I only messed around with the console. I will copy paste this and only say I feel the changes are cool, original and most of them go in the right direction, but powerwise these clerics still do not seem to be above the C tier at most.

Priest of Tempus : Just like the shaman, I have not yet played the new clerics in a run; I only messed around with the console. I will copy paste this and only say I feel the changes are cool, original and most of them go in the right direction, but powerwise these clerics still do not seem to be above the C tier at most.

Priest of Tyr : Just like the shaman, I have not yet played the new clerics in a run; I only messed around with the console. I will copy paste this and only say I feel the changes are cool, original and most of them go in the right direction, but powerwise these clerics still do not seem to be above the C tier at most.

Fighter (Sarevok) : A vanilla fighter may still use Judgement’s Day and the Defender of Easthaven while wearing elegant full plate mail, so it is not a weakling. But bringing a vanilla single class fighter when you could have brought a Berseker for no difference at all (a throwing axe, hammer or dagger is great anyway) gives us no choice but to put it below the Berseker.

Ranger : Even though treefolk’s arm is great, the boots of the ranger lord are great, why did you not just make a single class berseker instead ? You don’t have grand mastery and only have charm animal to show for it and maybe a few stealth shenanigans against a yuan-ti mage.

Stalker : Worse than a vanilla ranger I would say but not enough to warrant a downgrade into D tier at all. There are many decent studded leather armors anyway and backstab is not completely terrible even late game and even without assassination. Still not a very amazing class.

Champion of Avoreen (Mazzy) : A cute little kit that fits well for Mazzy. This doesn’t have much to bring to the table though as far as powergaming is concerned. It specializes in underwhelming weapon types and tries to make good use of a shield despite not being very good at either using stoneskin-like spells or boosting AC a lot. It has decent abilities but losing grand mastery in relevant weapons puts it kind of on par with a vanilla fighter overall.

Skald : Even though bards were nerfed hard, there is still merits to being able to buff the entire party at the same time as abusing the current use any item for invulnerability to physical damage and a small amount of decent physical pouding because of the great items you can mix together. It is under the threshold of playable and allows for interesting original party combinations. +4 to hit and damage on non-kensai fighters can make a big difference against certain opponents.

Blade (Haer’Dalis) : Similar to the Skald. It is worth noting that Haer’Dalis has an innate 15% physical resistance, which means that with the current state of use any item, he can reach a natural, permanent, non dispellable 100% resistance to physical damage using Jan’s armor, Scarlet Ioun Stone, Grandmaster of Flowers, Judgement’s Day and the Flail of Defending and Wounding. This while providing an enhanced bard song to the party is not a terrible way to use a character.

Bard : Similar to the skald and blade. The luck bonus is quite interesting for the party : aside from the chances to hit, better rolls on the damage dice, it provides a natural resistance to the damage dice of enemy spells, as well as their added on-hit damage (for example an Elemental Golem’s additional fire, lightning, cold and acid damage). Still, you’re bringing a bard to the party when you could be bringing a Ranger/Cleric instead.

Fighter/Thief : This class is a disappointment. The thief part strips it of grand mastery without adding use any items and without any means of protecting itself well. It ends up being a sub par character for pretty much the entirety of a run. The only thing it can do right is a full round of backstabs with proper tach0, using assassination innately or from the dagger, which is pretty good damage on certain IA targets.

Cleric/Mage (Aerie) : Losing alacrity and cleric level progression for dispels at the same time is not a great transaction for the mix of spells that you get. You get a huge spellbook of easily dispellable spells that you cannot spam because you cannot alacrity. But you still get access to the mage spells and many buffs, and can pound on melee a little bit if you set up, so you truly are not terrible enough to descend into the D tier. Plus, it’s exciting to use cleric spells in sequencers and contingencies. On the plus side, you can tank the same way a fighter-mage-cleric can, which is of great value but without proper physical prowess is less interesting.

Mage/Thief (Jan) : In general, being a thief without attacks per round and fighter HLAS is bad. This character still has partial mage progression, but makes poor usage of either full casting or backstabs. If you wanted the thief business taken care of, why did you not make a swashbuckler-mage or use Nalia ? Because it’s not like you will be backstabbing properly with no way to boost your attacks per round. And if you are not backstabbing you are not thieving properly in IA imo.



D TIER (you are making things worse for your party)

Transmuter : No stoneskin ? No protection from any elemental or magical energy ? No PMFW ? No breach ? No lower resistance ? No remove/dispel magic ? Ouch. But you are still a mage and thus it cannot be worse than D.

Cleric (Viconia) : A cleric without the new interesting kits is bound to be weaker than them, thus the D tier. You at least still benefit from the high level dispel magic, hard to dispel buffs, greater restoration. But that’s pretty much it.

Druid : A single class druid is nothing exciting because just like a cleric you do not have aura cleansing (although the new cleric kits can do something in that regard). The elemental resistances and the poison immunity are interesting, but what redeems you is the fact that the druid spells are great in IA and not as resisted as most other spells (entangle, alicorn, insects). Still, a very underwhelming class and you do not get nearly as good a level progression as the cleric for dispels.

Totemic Druid : You give up the mostly irrelevant shapeshift for mostly irrelevant summons, so you are actually a druid and that’s it.

Shapeshifter : You get kind of irrelevant extra shapeshifting abilities at the expense of a body armor that was not making much for you anyway (a single class druid cannot really hope to achieve good armor class, whereas an auramaster can use mirror image for example).

Beastmaster : It is thankfully a ranger and has full thac0 progression, but is severely limited in the items it can wield. Its advantages are irrelevant for IA. You cannot even use Belm or Water’s Edge with Treefolk’s Arm, so bringing this guy over even a plain fighter is hurting your party.

Wizard slayer : A single class wizard slayer has tons of items they cannot use and no way to compensate for it. Doing worse than a vanilla fighter cannot land you a high spot in the tier list.

Shadowdancer : This is a better thief and its other single class counterparts because of its interesting unique HLAS, including a clone. This leads to many interesting usages because shadowdancer does get use any item, but at the end of the day you are still a single class thief without tach0 or attacks per round for the entire run.

Jester : Rated lower than the other bards because Jester’s song is inferior to the other songs as the bard levels.

Cleric/Thief : A multiclass cleric-thief, although it may be dwarf for the saves, really doesn’t have much to show for the combo. It is handicapping its own cleric progression thus getting poor dispel magic, later greater restoration etc. It is not getting use any items and cannot use some weapons a thief can use such as water’s edge. A really poor choice, but since you’re handling thief business and still casting divine spells such as greater restoration, you do not descend below the D tier.

F TIER (purely terrible !)

Grizzly bear (Wilson) : lol.

Thief : A naked thief doesn’t offer much right now in IA. It is true that use any item allows them to use a combination of very powerful items, but without the attacks per round or tach0 to use them, as well as not bringing anything to the table beside that make the thief a very unfavoured party member.

Assassin : Good backstabs, but no tach0 and no attacks per round to use them, so still a naked thief. Poison is immensely nerfed in IA. The only noteworthy opponents I remember on which you can use poison damage are the Rukh Conjurer at the entrance of Firkraag’s dungeon and Akae from Samia’s party.

Bounty hunter (Yoshimo) : A naked thief that specializes in traps, which were the most nerfed feature in the entire mod I guess. Nope.

[pekkae]

Haha.

I thought about posting this list myself.

Good list. For my style, the maxed out Cernd goes to S-tier, it's probably the most effective damage dealer (via spells) in the game.

Hexxat lurks between S and A tiers, as the maxed out Hexxat (with 6.5 cloak) is practically non hittable after chapter 6 with all of the relevant HLA's to make her overly effective.

And the DD is a solid A-tier. Gets to 50-60% DR (even to 62-63%) in chapter 3 with amazing AC. Defensive stance is amazing, as DD is the only character (leaving anything with UAI) that can get to 50%+ non dispellable DR (combine defensive stance + RvE:Regen and purge magic does you no harm) and it offers saving throw bonuses as well in addition to the Dwarf's really good saving throws.

And you left out Swashbuckler/Mage, which is a really nice character as well. Solid A-tier I think. (edit: my mistake, it's there)

But that's for my playing style.

This post has been edited by pekkae: Jan 8 2024, 02:21 PM

[HTRT]

Good list. For my style, the maxed out Cernd goes to S-tier, it's probably the most effective damage dealer (via spells) in the game.

Yeah it is a very good class Kind of an alternative to necromancer for a Vagrant protagonist party in a way. If you go out of your way with reloading, you can give it foreknowledge with a wild mage or Neera, for a potential of +6

Hexxat lurks between S and A tiers, as the maxed out Hexxat (with 6.5 cloak) is practically non hittable after chapter 6 with all of the relevant HLA's to make her overly effective.

Do you know if her vampire invincibility scripts help a lot during an actual run ?

And the DD is a solid A-tier. Gets to 50-60% DR (even to 62-63%) in chapter 3 with amazing AC. Defensive stance is amazing, as DD is the only character (leaving anything with UAI) that can get to 50%+ non dispellable DR (combine defensive stance + RvE:Regen and purge magic does you no harm) and it offers saving throw bonuses as well in addition to the Dwarf's really good saving throws.

It's true I really forgot that the 25% is actually undispellable, as well as the innate 20% of course. Hardiness does go away quite often.

[pekkae]

Do you know if her vampire invincibility scripts help a lot during an actual run ?

She has numerous very rare immunities like immunity to level drain and fear. In addition, the gaseous form she turns into is non-killable.

So in addition to having the 2nd most effective H2H in the game, the best AC in the game you can use her as a kamikaze because she doesn't get permanently killed.

S-tier stuff .

[Sikret]

FInally, spirit form allows you to reach 100% physical damage resistance because it can stack with hardiness and the improved invisibility seems coupled with a spell immunity : divination that is not targetable by ruby rays, at least from the enemy scripts. This means that most of the times if you keep spirit form up your shaman will not be targeted by successful breaches because enemies try not to teach and thus don’t cast breach on an improved invisible character.

Spirit Form should be dispellable by remove magic, is it?

Auramaster's Perfect Camouflage also gives Improved Haste + SI:divination but it is dispellable by remove magic to make sure the character won't be totally untargetable.

Enemies are actually scripted to cast remove magic on such a character (Improved invisibility + SI:divination). If it is not dispellable, they will keep casting remove magic for no avail.

[critto]

There aren't any II nor SI:Div while Spirit Shifted, but currently it's an undispellable form so enemy casters don't target spirit shifted shaman with Breach as if it is a simple Hardiness.

This post has been edited by critto: Jan 21 2024, 11:16 PM

[Sikret]

There aren't any II nor SI:Div while Spirit Shifted, but currently it's an undispellable form so enemy casters don't target spirit shifted shaman with Breach as if it is a simple Hardiness.

It is fine then.

[Mankrik]

There was a class(build?) popular in our community :
Priest of Lathander 12 dualed into a fighter which is usually functioned as a healer/priest at start and melee damager output later on.
I believe it's A tier

This post has been edited by Mankrik: Feb 24 2024, 10:32 AM

[HTRT]

There was a class(build?) popular in our community :
Priest of Lathander 12 dualed into a fighter which is usually functioned as a healer/priest at start and melee damager output later on.
I believe it's A tier

I can see this being good yes 🙂

10 attacks without an attack increasing scimitar, full fighter hlas, righteous magic... I wonder though if boon of lathander is undispellable ? If it is, then does it count as a protection if you are hit by a vampire ?

[lxgxnd9]

Got the itch to play IA again want to try different classes.

How feasible is an Archer in IA?? Are Coin/Gem golems completely immune to missile damage for example I forget.

[HTRT]

Got the itch to play IA again want to try different classes.

How feasible is an Archer in IA?? Are Coin/Gem golems completely immune to missile damage for example I forget.

Missile will only hurt coin golems, and that is if you even got access to ammunition or a magic bow that requires no ammunition to fire. You will encounter many opponents that you never thought of taking down with missiles.

You will be fighting in melee like a weaker fighter, but with some specific ranger items at least. You will be able to count on the bow of gesen when you get it to inflict piercing damage instead of missile damage, which redeems the class.

If you have an intricate knowledge of the spells and of the specific vulnerabilities of monsters, you will enjoy the minus save and it will be B tier like I wrote I think.

If you don't or don't care about that, it will be C.

The tach0 penalty of called shot is quite decent anyway considering you almost always hit, even if for 0 damage. The tach0 penalty will still apply and can soften up a battle against a tough opponent.

Have fun 🙂

This post has been edited by HTRT: Feb 29 2024, 02:03 AM

[bulian]

There was a class(build?) popular in our community :
Priest of Lathander 12 dualed into a fighter which is usually functioned as a healer/priest at start and melee damager output later on.
I believe it's A tier

Did anyone try a cleric 14 or cleric 17 version of this before dualing so as to have a couple of level 7 spells?

[Sikret]

Now that v7 is released, I think it is an appropriate time for HTRT to edit the original post of this thread and re-evaluate a few of the kits/classes:

(1) Wizard Slayer

(2) Wild Mage

(3) Riskbreaker

(4) Champion of Arvoreen

[pekkae]

There was a class(build?) popular in our community :
Priest of Lathander 12 dualed into a fighter which is usually functioned as a healer/priest at start and melee damager output later on.
I believe it's A tier

Did anyone try a cleric 14 or cleric 17 version of this before dualing so as to have a couple of level 7 spells?

I did try this, but from 20th onwards. Used the 6.6 Priest of Tempus as a template to get extra APR's. I concluded that at least for me it looks like a little bit limited mage, with some combat ability. And if one wants that, Cernd is by far the more powerful character for that role.

Now that v7 is released, I think it is an appropriate time for HTRT to edit the original post of this thread and re-evaluate a few of the kits/classes:

(1) Wizard Slayer

(2) Wild Mage

(3) Riskbreaker

(4) Champion of Arvoreen

Also:

1. Hexxat goes from very powerful to a mediocre character, getting -1 APR (compared to 6.5 really hurts, together with loss of some Swashie abilities)

2. Regular Swashie goes from B to C (I think, haven't tested & don't have all of the variables available) and the nice S/M combination loses out some of it's powers.

3. There were a few other classes that got boosts but I forgot which ones they were.

4. For my style, Mazzy goes to a solid A-tier with the improvements. And the Avenger PC, with upgraded stuffs, might go to a S-tier. Ditto for Jaheira.

This post has been edited by pekkae: Jun 26 2024, 01:32 PM

[kilorew]

Think we need a special tier just for Sibel (S+ tier)

[HTRT]

Now that v7 is released, I think it is an appropriate time for HTRT to edit the original post of this thread and re-evaluate a few of the kits/classes:

(1) Wizard Slayer

(2) Wild Mage

(3) Riskbreaker

(4) Champion of Arvoreen

Lol I really don't know. This already feels outdated as the Shaman and Cleric kits were just guesses. I don't know the extent of what can be forged either, but it seems like Wild Mage is stronger yet still A, lacking very high bonuses to spell casting speed. Riskbreaker is still A, although it becomes harder to pick a dual wielding kensai over him. Champion of Avoreen (Mazzy) seems like a timid A.

Wizard Slayer hmmmm..... I would be inclined to say B, although it is probably A. It kinda comes out to what you make out of Purge Magic... It probably helps with doing a tough run going to SpellHold as late as possible, tackling tougher battles earlier. Is probably awesome in the Demogorgon fight. Is it possible for instance to lower the Rakshasha prince to Near Death right after he casts a spell, and then use Purge to speed up the fight, using Wish as Rest once ? As powerful as it sounds, even if it is doable, is it necessary anyway ? For a fight like the 4 Grave Liches, one probably doesn't need Purge Magic badly. I guess it can help a lot vs people like Kruin or the Supreme Leader. I think I would stick with a solid B

But these are all guesses lol, enjoy the game !

[Sikret]

Thanks HTRT!

In v7, Riskbreakers gain their first Improved Haste one level sooner. They also have two new and very good items.

As for Wizard Slayers, I think it is good if you play a whole game with one and assess their advantages and disadvantages.

And yes, wild mages are now stronger than before. They have two new items too.

[nicoper]

Hi

Just some feedbacks from my latest two runs
First run Shaman protag/Sibel/Imoen sorc/Neera sorc/Kensaï 2HW/RB dualW
Second run Necro protag/Sibel/Imoen RB dualW/KensaÏ 2HW/Valygar protector/Jaheira

Before anything I will never pretend doing such a comprehensive analysis as HTRT did but some feedbacks on some (few) char or classes :

First (and it shows accuracy of HTRT job), Imoen + Neera as sorceresses (my first run) are much more powerful than necroprotag alone (even fully equipped) when it comes to arcane power and support
Try (as I am without success from now) to beat Demo with just one mage, even Necro and see.

RB was quite powerful (some might say OP), class is now more powerful in V7.
Sibel would be in "S" class, possibly top position: strikes hard, lightspeed casting, insane AC, difficult to kill even by top bosses....What else?

As far as I am concerned, with RB/Kensaï/Sibel/Jaheira (or avenger), what is the point of picking any figther/paladin/barbarian in a party? (apart spending money forging armor shields or weapons)
Another point for me picking among those classes is that you do not need to forge many weapons:
Sibel has her club, it is enough
Crom/thor, RB axe, phosphorous +4/5, FoA,


If I have (and do) take another fighter like char, I prefer Valygar or a vagrant, or a weakling for the fun (once I took an assassin and a swash)

Shaman protag is quite powerful in its way, would rank him second to Vagrant (Necro third) in terms of individual power, second to Necro (small margin) as party support

Brute power still rules in IA (my Second run party did WK in Soa, starting WK4 with supreme and WK5 with Ancient dragon) previous difficult fight for them I remember before Demogorgon was Suna Seni