Suggestions for the coming release Options

[lroumen]

That opens up possibilities

[pekkae]

No, you don't need to do that. This ability can be used at ANY time, as long as you have control over your character. Ofc at lower levels it won't have any effect if you don't wait for the proper amount of time, but you get a "fatigued" icon on your character, just like with berserker rage, indicating when you can use the ability again.

https://youtu.be/dEKjO3O8dY8 Here's a video presenting the skill.

This looks great!

This post has been edited by pekkae: Nov 15 2022, 10:20 AM

[SparrowJacek]

I hope there will be many creative uses of this skill, that I didn't even think of.

Now I have a bit better vision of where I want to go with Cleric kits. Apart from their special abilities, they will be having access to the same spells (some of them not available to pure Clerics), but the spells will have some benefits based on the kit. Some Cleric kits will be more melee oriented, whilie Priest of Talos will be a better caster.

1. Priest of Lathander will have undispellable Boon of Lathander and a better version of Hold Undead (improved from my previous post about it).
2. Priest of Tempus won't get Holy Power as a skill, but his Holy Power will be improved and add additional 1/2APR at levels 10 and 20 (since the spell has "strength and skill" in the description). Also his Holy Power and Righteous Might will be undispellable.
3. Priest of Helm will be able to use long swords and put 2 stars in them. Also his Seeking Sword will be completely reworked and will become more powerful as the Priest levels up. It won't block spell casting, though it will have some slight disadvantages (I'm not yet sure which ones). Also at high enough levels the sword will get a higher range, not needing the Priest to make a direct contact with the enemy, to deal damage.
4. Priest of Talos will get an early access to Purify Aura and the final improvement for Cleric casting will work slightly better for him. I'm also thinking of reworking both of his abilities.
5. Priest of Tyr will be able to put additional star in Sword and Shield style (which synergizes with a new spell, which will be introduced), also he will get more uses of Exaltation and it will last longer.

This post has been edited by SparrowJacek: Nov 16 2022, 03:39 PM

[pekkae]

I hope there will be many creative uses of this skill, that I didn't even think of.

Now I have a bit better vision of where I want to go with Cleric kits. Apart from their special abilities, they will be having access to the same spells (some of them not available to pure Clerics), but the spells will have some benefits based on the kit. Some Cleric kits will be more melee oriented, whilie Priest of Talos will be a better caster.

1. Priest of Lathander will have undispellable Boon of Lathander and a better version of Hold Undead (improved from my previous post about it).
2. Priest of Tempus won't get Holy Power as a skill, but his Holy Power will be improved and add additional 1/2APR at levels 10 and 20 (since the spell has "strength and skill" in the description). Also his Holy Power and Righteous Might will be undispellable.
3. Priest of Helm will be able to use long swords and put 2 stars in them. Also his Seeking Sword will be completely reworked and will become more powerful as the Priest levels up. It won't block spell casting, though it will have some slight disadvantages (I'm not yet sure which ones). Also at high enough levels the sword will get a higher range, not needing the Priest to make a direct contact with the enemy, to deal damage.
4. Priest of Talos will get an early access to Purify Aura and the final improvement for Cleric casting will work slightly better for him. I'm also thinking of reworking both of his abilities.
5. Priest of Tyr will be able to put additional star in Sword and Shield style (which synergizes with a new spell, which will be introduced), also he will get more uses of Exaltation and it will last longer.

This looks like very welcome development!

Even minor details can have tremendous impact on the outcome of effectiveness, the differentiation of Cleric kits lets one then pick a class most suitable for overall party composition (most glaring needs).

If the Cleric spells are going through a revamp, could you also upgrade the spell "spiritual hammer" so that it reaches +5 instead of +3? (that way it could be used even in late game as well =))

This post has been edited by pekkae: Nov 19 2022, 11:26 AM

[SparrowJacek]

I want to release this new version soon (in the upcoming 2-3 weeks) and based on input from players, some more changes and more differences between the kits might be introduced.

Okay, today it's finally time to show you the final spell (apart from Cause X Wounds and Purify Aura) that will make Clerics better casters, hopefully without making them broken.

~Spiritual Link
(Alteration)

Level: 7
Range: 0
Duration: 15 rounds
Casting Time: 8
Area of Effect: The caster
Saving Throw: None

By opening a direct link between the caster and <PRO_HISHER> god, the caster is able to draw divine energies faster, than normally. This results in <PRO_HIMHER> needing less time to cast spells, which require longer incantations and more focus. The more experience the caster has, the stronger the link and in result, the quicker the casting.

This spell sets casting time of all spells, which have this value higher than 7 to 7. At level 18 this value is reduced to 6, then to 5 and finally to 4 at levels 22 and 26 respectively. Due to direct contact with divine energies, all other means of lowering casting time become useless, however the caster can sever the link at any moment, without wasting <PRO_HISHER> action this round.~

This spell will have a +1 casting time for Priests of Talos, since they don't have any improvements for h2h.

Also, here's an equivalent of Weaken Undead spell, which is designed to fight demons. This spell is gained by all Clerics, even those without any kit.

~Demon Hunt
(Alteration)

Level: 5
Range: 30 ft.
Duration: 1 turn
Casting Time: 5
Area of Effect: Special
Saving Throw: None

This powerful spell was designed specifically to fight against demons and fiends from Nine Hells. It is directed at a single target, but it affects everyone in the area of 30 feet, when the spell lands.
Hunter: when the spell affects an ally of the caster, it gives +2 to thaco and damage against demons. Additionally, each hit done to demons has a 10% chance to increase the demon's chance for Critical Miss by 5% for 2 rounds, this effect is cumulative.
Prey: when the spell affects a demon, it increases its chance of Critical Miss by 5% and each time the demon scores a Critical Miss, it suffers 10 points of magical damage.~

[kilorew]

Been itching for another Improved Anvil run, still the best version of BGII.

Great to hear a new version coming out soon, thanks guys

[lroumen]

I have been playing a shaman in bg1 to import to bg2 (bad habit to require that to play the saga) and I am almost through it. Thinking about doing siege as well because I think it may import some shaman items.

Nevertheless, I am thinking about cleric kit pairing, but it feels like a candy shop right now, lol.

[ed boy]

I'm very impressed with all the new cleric spells - they're giving clerics powerful tools that feel very unique to clerics and within the class identity.

Are these new spells all for pure clerics, or would they also be available for dual/multis?

[SparrowJacek]

I'm very impressed with all the new cleric spells - they're giving clerics powerful tools that feel very unique to clerics and within the class identity.

That was my intention, so I'm glad that I managed to achieve that

Are these new spells all for pure clerics, or would they also be available for dual/multis?

For now most new spells (apart from Demon Hunt) will be accessible only for Cleric kits, as I really want them to become more appealing to players. You will be however able to dual class without any restrictions. We want people to have more options when playing the mod and that was one of our core concepts for 6.X versions. Some things might change, spells be moved, restricted or made more accessible after we get some more input.

EDIT: Ofc all general improvements for spells will be available for all Clerics.

This post has been edited by SparrowJacek: Nov 23 2022, 03:01 PM

[SparrowJacek]

I have a question to you guys:
did you ever use Sunray spell in Improved Anvil? Was it useful at all against tougher enemies?

[pekkae]

I have a question to you guys:
did you ever use Sunray spell in Improved Anvil? Was it useful at all against tougher enemies?

I've tried to but I never succeeded with it that much... I think it should be devastating against mists for example, but it doesn't work that well - lightning damage is just so much better (IIRC) and has so many other uses as well.

[SparrowJacek]

Okay then, here are 2 more rebalanced spells apart from False Dawn (which works the same as on 2nd page of this thread, except it works only on Shadows and Vampires)
I removed immunities to those spells from most enemies (maybe some of the most powerful ones still can resist those spells).

Bolt of Glory
(Invocation/Evocation)

Level: 6
Sphere: Combat, Summoning
Range: 60 ft.
Duration: Instant
Casting Time: 9
Area of Effect: 1 creature
Saving Throw: None

By casting this spell, the priest channels a bolt of divine energy against the target. No attack roll is needed. The damage bypasses Magic Resistance and creatures struck suffer varying damage, depending on their plane of origin:

Creature Type Damage
Prime Material Plane 6d6
Elemental 3d4
Undead 8d6
Demon 10d6

Additionally demons suffer damage as if they had only 60% of their current Magic Damage Resistance, so a demon with 50% initial resistance would suffer damage as if it had only 30% resistance.

BoG is now a single target and long range spell, which deals nice damage to demons. Both this spell and False Dawn will benefit greatly from Spiritual Link at higher levels.

Sunray
(Evocation, Alteration)

Level: 7
Sphere: Sun
Range: 20 ft.
Duration: Instant
Casting Time: 4
Area of Effect: 15-ft. radius
Saving Throw: Special

When this spell is cast, it causes a ray of sunlight to beam down upon the caster and everyone within a 15-ft. radius. All creatures within the area of effect take 3d6 points of damage and must save vs. Spell or be blinded for 1 turn. Undead that are hit by the sunray take additional 6d6 damage, which bypasses Magic Resistance and during the impact their Fire Resistance is reduced by 25% of their current value. Creatures that by some means achieved values of Fire Resistance higher than 100 are completely immune to the effects of this spell.

This spell is a bit similar to False Dawn, so I decided to make it deal less damage to most of the creatures that are affected by False Dawn, but Sunray can affect all other undead enemies, currently being the only AoE spell dealing damage to Skeleton (War/Grand)lords.

[kilorew]

Is there a rough date in mind on when this new update will be released or is it a week by week ?

[SparrowJacek]

Is there a rough date in mind on when this new update will be released or is it a week by week ?

It's hard to say, as there are still many things to implement and some cause me more trouble than anticipated. But be prepared to get the new version in the upcoming 2 weeks. I think that most of the hardest elements are already coded and at least partially tested.

And while we're on the topic of spells that are hard to code, here are 2 more:

Defensive Harmony
(Enchantment/Charm)

Level: 4
Sphere: Law
Range: 0
Duration: 6 rounds
Casting Time: 1
Area of Effect: 15-ft. radius
Saving Throw: None

Defensive Harmony grants affected creatures a defensive bonus by bestowing an enchanted coordination on their attacks and defenses. This allows a group of creatures to act as a single unit for a single battle or encounter. The effect is always centered on the caster, but affects all allies within a 15-ft. radius. Those affected can move outside of this area after the spell is cast and still enjoy the benefits of the harmony. While the spell is in effect, each affected creature gains a +2 bonus to <PRO_HISHER> Armor Class. This lasts for 6 rounds or until dispelled.

Clerics who decided to devote their lives to a single deity get additional benefits from this spell. Every 6 seconds all party members in 15-ft. radius gain additional physical resistance for 6 seconds and the caster gets the same bonus for each party member affected. This bonus is equal to 2% from level 12 and increases to 3 and 4, at levels 18 and 24 respectively.~

I like this improvement very much. It sticks to the description even better than vanilla part of the spell, since the coordination should be maintained and it gives more profits if you have more party members. Also this additional DR shouldn't allow for any abuse with many casters having many DH activated.

Heavenly Shield
(Conjuration)

Level: 6
Sphere: Law
Range: 0
Duration: 1 turn
Casting Time: 5
Area of Effect: Caster
Saving Throw: None

By casting this spell the Cleric makes <PRO_HISHER> shield fell lighter in <PRO_HISHER> hand and additional agility. This allows the caster to use the shield offensively, by searching for openings in enemy's defences and striking when the time is right. The better the caster's ability to fight using a shield, the greater the benefits of this spell.

Each first hit per round for the next turn deals additional crushing damage. The base value is 2d3 plus additional 2d4 per each point in Sword and Shield style.~

That spell should make shields slightly more useful. It also ensures that only 1 hit per round gets this bonus, so the spell is as useful for pure Clerics, as it would be for duals/multis with higher APR. I think this spell will be available to all Clerics, you will need to invest points in S&S to make it more useful anyway.

Be prepared, that some enemy Clerics will have this spell as a prebuff, so their damage will increase too. And ofc they will get additional AC bonuses from reworked Sword and Shield style.

This post has been edited by SparrowJacek: Nov 25 2022, 12:47 PM

[pekkae]

Defensive Harmony
(Enchantment/Charm)

Level: 4
Sphere: Law
Range: 0
Duration: 6 rounds
Casting Time: 1
Area of Effect: 15-ft. radius
Saving Throw: None

Defensive Harmony grants affected creatures a defensive bonus by bestowing an enchanted coordination on their attacks and defenses. This allows a group of creatures to act as a single unit for a single battle or encounter. The effect is always centered on the caster, but affects all allies within a 15-ft. radius. Those affected can move outside of this area after the spell is cast and still enjoy the benefits of the harmony. While the spell is in effect, each affected creature gains a +2 bonus to <PRO_HISHER> Armor Class. This lasts for 6 rounds or until dispelled.

Clerics who decided to devote their lives to a single deity get additional benefits from this spell. Every 6 seconds all party members in 15-ft. radius gain additional physical resistance for 6 seconds and the caster gets the same bonus for each party member affected. This bonus is equal to 2% from level 12 and increases to 3 and 4, at levels 18 and 24 respectively.

I like this improvement very much. It sticks to the description even better than vanilla part of the spell, since the coordination should be maintained and it gives more profits if you have more party members. Also this additional DR shouldn't allow for any abuse with many casters having many DH activated.

Finally a defensive hamony worth casting! So did I get this right, assuming the cleric casts this and it affects all 5 other party members a 24th level caster could get up to 20% DR with this spell?

[SparrowJacek]

So did I get this right, assuming the cleric casts this and it affects all 5 other party members a 24th level caster could get up to 20% DR with this spell?

Yes, that's right. However you need to keep a tight formation to get all the bonuses.

[pekkae]

So did I get this right, assuming the cleric casts this and it affects all 5 other party members a 24th level caster could get up to 20% DR with this spell?

Yes, that's right. However you need to keep a tight formation to get all the bonuses.

I can hear the wail of the demon princes as far as my house.

Though to be fair - I live in Hellsinki.

(ps. I'm very much looking forward to these new changes!)

This post has been edited by pekkae: Nov 25 2022, 08:54 PM

[ed boy]

Defensive Harmony

So am I understanding this correctly:

• Cast this spell as a cleric kit
• Count the number of nearby allies, call it X
• Each of those allies gets 2%/3%/4% resistance to slashing+crushing+piercing damage
• The caster gains X multiplied by 2%/3%/4% resistance to slashing+crushing+piercing damage

How does this work if there are multiple pure class clerics? I could see some shenanigans happening if a part of six clerics starts casting this.

Heavenly Shield

Does this require the caster to be using a shield? The spell description doesn't explicitly say so, and I'm not sure if the engine would support such a limitation.

[SparrowJacek]

So am I understanding this correctly:
Cast this spell as a cleric kit
Count the number of nearby allies, call it X
Each of those allies gets 2%/3%/4% resistance to slashing+crushing+piercing damage
The caster gains X multiplied by 2%/3%/4% resistance to slashing+crushing+piercing damage

Yes, each of the allies gets this bonus for 6 seconds and for each of them your Cleric gets similar bonus, which stacks.

How does this work if there are multiple pure class clerics? I could see some shenanigans happening if a part of six clerics starts casting this.

I might have overlooked something, but in general you should get the best bonuses, when only 1 character casts the spell, without going into too much detail. But yeah, that was the hardest spell to code properly and I have limited time for testing some very unlikely scenarios, so there might still be some problems.

Does this require the caster to be using a shield? The spell description doesn't explicitly say so, and I'm not sure if the engine would support such a limitation.

Ok, I will add that info to the spell if it's not clear enough - you do need a shield to get the bonuses from this spell. To be precise you need to have a shield when striking, it's not needed at the moment you cast the spell, you can also switch between weapons and such. I already have this spell working, so don't worry, it's doable

This post has been edited by SparrowJacek: Nov 25 2022, 09:19 PM

[SparrowJacek]

Good news. I had much more time than usual to work on the mod and I'm almost finished with the hardest stuff, what is left is just small changes to some spells and adding proper descriptions, abilities and HLAs to proper kits. I think that I should have a working version before next Friday, probably even sooner. However be warned, that my skill and experience in modding is far lower than Critto's, plus I don't have enough time to make a proper run, to see the new changes in the mod. That's why there might (will) be some errors and some things might be unballanced. So I encourage you to give us your feedback, so that we can make changes, where they are needed

As it will be only a beta version of 6.6, I will make another standard topic, without pinning it anywhere. There I will list all the changes that were done to rebalance Clerics, so that you know what to look for.

This post has been edited by SparrowJacek: Nov 25 2022, 09:29 PM