IA 5.0 experiences by saros, [Topic split by Baronius] Options

[saros]

Editor's foreword (by Sikret):

Since we have thoroughly tested most of the things saros reports in this thread and have found most of them totally false and misleading, we would like to emphasize that the content of this thread is not reliable and can even be misleading for new players. It's worth noting however that none of the things he has written (not even one single word) has been deleted. We could of course delete the entire topic, because we are not supposed to publish false and forged reports about Improved Anvil, but we decided to keep it as an evidence to show how the game should NOT be played for future reference.

saros is playing the game in an illegitimate way with lots of cheats. Many of the things he reports are totally false and can be misleading for other players. So, those who want to read reliable information about IA, should not waste their time reading this thread, because it can affect their mentality about the mod in an invalid and misleading way. As he has admitted in one of his own posts, he is just playing the mod in order to prove that he can win it with a solo character even if it means using cheap methods and cheats.

Even worse than his cheats are his lies. He has reported several nonexistent bugs; for example, each time he fails to win a battle, he retorts by saying that the battle was bugged and such things. Improved Anvil's testing team has thoroughly examined all of his alleged bug reports and has found all of them to be false and fake. Some of them can be interpreted as mistakes of an unskilled player who doesn't observe the events carefully, but some others are so obvious that they can only be interpreted as deliberate and intentional lies.

The best way to tell a lie and make it believable is to tell a big lie and then say "everyone is welcome to test it for himself". This is exactly what saros does. Of course, everyone is indeed welcome to test what he reports and see that he is lying (as we did), but saros is counting on psychological effect of his words and knows that most players won't actually test what he says. I don't really understand what motivates him and what is his purpose of writing so many lies. As I said, most of the lies he writes can't really be interpreted as simple mistakes; they are so obvious that can only be intentional. To see a concrete example of his lies click here. Examples of his lies and false reports are really numerous, but I don't have any extra time to waste on composing a complete list of them.

Of course, at first, we decided to help saros play the mod in a legitimate way in a friendly tone, but he kept refusing to listen.

Cheaters never prosper. True winners never cheat. Liars are even worse than cheaters.

As a newer and recent discovery, saros had actually more than one nickname(s) here at BWL and had cross-posted some of his lies with another nickname as well. When someone is not honest, he is not honest in many ways.

==============================================


Hi again.

I'd also like to share my experience so far with the fifth version of the IA mod and I will describe some methods which may prove helpful to all. This is my intention. Some of the methods are pure cheese by certain player's standard, but none of them is cheating. And I have an absolutely official installation of the required only components in the right order, with the exception of an added Happy tweak from the EoU mod. According to Sikret, it's no big deal.

My personal opinion is that everyone is welcome to play the mod as he/she wants. With this I mean with or without cheesy methods. I personally do not like cheating.

The experience I've collected so far concerns primarily the first hard steps in Athkatla, and some methods to create a higher level party.

In Chateau Irenicus, it is good for the PC to play solo through the dungeon. It would be immensely helpful if the PC is some sort of wizard or thief, because these classes offer an additional xp boost (from traps, locks and scrolls).
If the PC is not a thief, then he/she may consider joining Yoshimo, but only for the traps and locks in the dungeon, meaning that Yoshi should be avoided until everything else is cleared. Avoiding him is easily done via Invisibility, Hide In Shadows or Sanctuary.
After the PC has cleared the way to the exit, he then may start to collect NPCs: first Minsc, then(after temporarily disbanding Minsc) Jaheira, and finally Yoshimo. This way, the joining NPCs will be with a starting xp of 161 000. If an NPC is joined right away after the start of the game, his or her xp will be only 90 000.
This way, not only your PC will get more overall xp in chapter 1, but also the joined NPCs will have 71 000 free xp points gained.

SPOILER!

If you want to gain some extra xp, leave one Mephit portal active and kill spawning mephits. Sure, they offer only 420 xp points, but their spawning is endless if the portal is alive.
If your PC is a Cleric/Wizard of some kind, then combining Animate Dead and Invisibility cast on the Ice Mephit Portal will provide you with some free time to read a book or watch a movie while your PC gains xp. Skeletons are immune to cold damage, they stay 8 hours, and if they do not see the Invisible mephit portal, then they don't attack it, but instead attack only spawning Ice Mephits

After going out, and collecting the quest xp reward for chapter 1, it would be wise to kick everyone out of the party and temporarily play solo. The logic in this is, that most of the new NPCs will join a high level character also at higher levels(up to 1.2 million xp for a joining NPC).

I suggest completing the Circus tent for the xp and spell scrolls, and afterwards, sleeping over in order to wait for the first two night encounters. As we all know, these contain gems, gold and several spell scrolls, namely Find Familiar, Spell Thrust, Stoneskin, Minor Spell Turning, Disintegrate and Contingency. All of these are useful, most are qute rare and hard to come by.

The most dangerous part of the solo starting strategy are the first two random city encounters, and especially the first one, Suna Seni. I've had experience with her party with a low level solo F/M/T and F/M/C. It's easy for a F/M/C to win this battle with the proper domination/disabling spells. It's harder for a F/M/T since the two actually active classes in the battle are the fighter and mage, the thief does absolutely nothing. Here is my experience:

SPOILER!

Suna Seni and her goons have various immunities and protection spells running. The most effective strategy so far was casting a Greater Malinson, followed by a couple of Web spells. The big problem here is the lack of spell slots at lower levels. My F/M/T entered this fight equipped with two +3 long swords, Stoneskined, Improved Invisible, with two Rings of Protection equipped, with Spirit Armor, Shield, Blur, Pro Evil, Mirror Image, with Frost Giant strength potion consumed, with Draw Upon Holy Might and also Hasted. This can be done the following way:

Creating two +3 swords, memorizing Stoneskin, rest.
Casting Stoneskin, memorizing Spirit Armor and Greater Malinson, rest.
Casting Spirit Armor, consuming an Oil of Speed, a Potion of Frost Giant Strength(from Ribald), casting the rest of the buffs in proper order. An Improved Invisibility should be activated from a scroll on top of all of this.

When the battle started, my PC disrupted the cleric's True Sight spell by engaging him in melee. Afterwards, I began to circle around in order to avoid the melee fighters. My AC was -14 anyway due to buffs. Afterwards I activated Web. Web has a chance to catch everyone, including Suna Seni, but the cleric and the mage are immune to its effects. No matter. The cleric falls in a couple of rounds. The mage cannot survive long in melee, even with his Mirror Image and Stoneskin. But I found it more convenient to carry two additional scrolls of Web and one of Improved Invisibility, just in case anything goes wrong. And furthermore, it is good to focus on Suna Seni while she's webbed, since she dies in a couple of rounds, and afterwards to concentrate on the enemy wizard.

The PC can save without failure vs the web effects while his Improved Invisibility is still active.

When the cleric, mage and Suna Seni are dead, the rest of the fight is relatively easy.

My third level slots were filled with Fireball spells, which work great on malinsoned webbed enemies: they're like sitting ducks.

The second random city encounter is much easier thanx to the Breach spell obtained from the corpse of the first encounter's enemy wizard, and fewer enemy fighters.

There are a few unmodded quests in Athkatla. No need to rush to Trademeet.

The relatively free xp which may be collected(apart from spell scrolls for an arcane caster):

Copper Coronet: fight with Amalas
Outside Copper Coronet: fight with Corvale
Find out what happened to Montaron: catching the bird without completing the quest(yet). Xzar may be looted for his scrolls and gems. Spectral Harpists may be killed for extra xp.
The Graveyard quests plus all of the monsters in the crypts, except for the Spider Lair.
The kidnappers who buried Tirdir(bridge)
Mae'var's quest, without getting the quest xp reward from Renal.
The illithium ore quest.
(revised)
The skinner murders.

Note: It is not necessary to collect the Reputation rewards from such quests. Remember that by donating gold to a temple you can raise your reputation up to 16, and afterwards collect reputation reward from both this and the Circus Tent quest.

SPOILER!

There are other ways to gain a lot of xp and gold, and spell scrolls, and green protection scrolls, and potions, ammo or even some enchanted items:

Looting amnish guards who interrupt the party's rest on the streets of Athkatla: a decent hasted thief can do it. These guards carry sometimes valuable spell scrolls.

Dropping your reputation to 3 or lower(despised) and starting to kill Amnish patrols which appear. Those come with a standard equipment and some random item slots. The standard equipment includes five full plate mails per patrol, which are worth from six to nine thousand gp when sold on the market.
The random item slots may contain one of the following:

1. A random magical item. Those are occasionally of +1 enchantment, but there are exceptions, like Short Bow +2 or even a Spear +3.
2. A potion. The potions may be: of Healing, Oil of Resurgence, Potion of Vitality, Potion of Strength, Potion of Invisibility, Potion of Fortitude, Potion of Agility, Elixir of Health.
3. A random jewel or a small sum of gold. The most valuable gem that may be obtained this way is the Black Opal, while the most valuable necklace is the laeral's tear.
4. A spell scroll. Here is the (almost) full list:

Magic Missile
Shield
Burning Hands
Protection from Evil
Shocking Grasp
Color Spray
Minor Spell Turning
Monster Summoning III
(these low level scrolls can be dropped far more seldom than the higher level scrolls)

Summon Nishruu
Carrion Summons
Prot from Magic Energy
Globe of Invulnerability
True Sight(very seldom)
Mislead(very seldom)
Death Spell
Tenser's Transformation
Spell Sequencer
Spell Turning
Sphere of Chaos
Summon Harkeashar/Djinni/Efreeti
Mordenkainen's sword
Protection from Elements
Ruby Ray of Reversal
Khelben's Warding Whip
Control Undead
Cacofiend
Spell Trigger
Protection from Energy
Pierce Shield
ADHW
Incendiary Cloud
Tenser's partial
Summon Fiend
Spell Trap

Green scrolls:
Cursed scroll of Petrification
Prot from Cold
Prot from Fire
Prot from Poison
Prot from Level Drain

Killing Amnish guards may continue as much as one wants. This way may be collected free xp, gold and scrolls.

There is a price, however. After the first few won battles with such patrols, a bug appears, and arcane spellcasting on the streets does not trigger the appearance of Cowled wizard patrols. I've tested it. So no fight is possible with the Cowled wizards after this exploit is deployed. And since they carry some valuable scrolls like Improved haste, this is a waste somehow.

[Ryel ril Ers]

Welcome saros!

I will be a regular reader of your walkthrough. You want the maximum, and yes you use some cheese-like method, but if you like your game, than it's OK.

I ask two thing:
1) Skip out the best pickpocket places, every player works hardly for this stuffs like the permanency scroll.
2) If you like open a new topic here (like me), because this is a dead and haunted topic. There was lot of flame here.

You are very precise, and i wait your updates.

[saros]

Hi Ryel ril Ers!

1. I will most certainly not reveal any more locations of upgrade ingredients anymore. I thought that it's safe to give away such locations under Spoiler tags.
2. As for the topic, since I started here, I don't see the reason why shoud I flood the forum and create another topic with a similar name.

As for the adventure afterwards, since I'm currently playing with a powerful F/M/T solo, this is what I'll be writing about. Along the way of my walkthrough, there will be still more advices for players who don't want to use xp or gold gain exploits too, so I think that all will profit in the end.

After attaining a decent amount of xp(10 500 000 total), I've decided to stop killing Amnish Guards and focus on some other stuff. I quickly raised my reputation by donations to a temple to Average since I didn't want to be chased for now by Amnish patrols:

SPOILER!

Reputation raising sums:

From 1 to 2 : 5000 gp
From 2 to 3 : 3000 gp
From 3 to 4 : 2500 gp
From 4 to 5 : 2000 gp
From 5 to 6 : 1500 gp
From 6 to 11 : 1000 gp
From 11 to 12: 1500 gp
From 12 to 13: 2000 gp
From 13 to 14: 2500 gp
From 14 to 15: 3000 gp
From 15 to 16: 5000 gp

After selling a little plate mails, spell scrolls, potions and jewels gained through the extensive fights with Amnish patrols, I was able to buy Dak'kon Zerth's blade, an Amulet of Protection +1, an additional Ring +1(I have 4 now), a Knave's Robe.

Another very interesting and rare(for the start of the game) item was dropped in the Amnish Guard fights - a Bastard Sword +2.

I re-visited the City Gates District.

SPOILER!

For all who don't know - after the first visit to the city gates, and taking the Trademeet Quest, one may revisit the City Gates district after several days, and will find a merchant bullied by a thief. By rescuing the merchant, he offers *one* only opportunity of shopping. This merchant has a lot of hard to obtain spell scrolls, including Spell Deflection, Contingency, Lower Resistance and Protection from Fire.

I bought all scrolls from this guy, as well as some potions of Hill Giant Strength. The Spell Deflection was what I needed.

With previously bought scrolls at the Bridge District(Spell Immunity, Improved Haste, Protection from Cold),the Watcher's Keep(Prot from Electricity) the Promenade(Protection from Acid) and with all obtained scrolls from Amnish Patrols, I was ready for the Pirate Cave fight. I dropped to Cromwell to get a Ring of Protection +2, and thus my rings in the subsequent fight were RoP+2 and a RoP+1.


SPOILER!

With a high level F/M/T (20/18/23) the fight was relatively easy. My armaments were Namarra main-handed and Dakkon Zerth Blade off, with ** in Long swords and * in katanas. I buffed extensively with the Protection from various elements spells, as well as Prot from Magical Energy. Unfortunately, this left me with only three Spell Immunity spells, but it turned out that they were sufficient. Spirit Armor was also cast, as well as Shield, Blur and Prot from Petrification, Spell Turning, Spell Deflection and Spell Trap. To this I added Protection from Evil, Improved Haste, a potion of Hill Giant Strength and Draw Upon Holy Might, and as the last buff, SI: A was in order. I switched amulets

When I entered the cave, I quickly retreated behind enemy's Line of Sight and activated a single Time Trap. This Time Trap activated twice due to a bug in the original game and I was able to slay the Pirate captain during its effect.

My Contingency triggered and erected a Globe of Invulnerability around my PC.

I've found out that while Mirror Image, Improved Invisibility and other similar spells trigger the Pirate Coordinator True Sight casting, Blur itself does not. So it's good to have several Blur spells since they will not be dispelled, while at the same time they provided my PC with AC and saving throw bonus.

The pirates fell quickly afterwards. The Time Trapping during the first three rounds apparently messed with their initial potion gulping script (they quaff potions in the very beginning of the fight), since they didn't use any potions afterwards, and this was one of the most valuable moments in the fight, since my PC obtained three of the valuable and rare Potions of Magic Shielding, plus three Oils of Speed.

After all but the Pirate Coordinator were slain, I waited patiently for him to cast his spells. I released a Death spell on three of his summons (my last 6-th level spell). Bty the way, it seems that (Minor) globe of Invulnerability protected him from a couple of my Remove Magic spells! I should try this in my next fight.

I ate his two Ruby Rays, which removed my Spell Trap and Spell Turning.
Note: if he's engaged in melee, the Spell Turning, Deflection and Trap will be quickly consumed by his Fireshield Blue, because each successful melee hit punishes my PC with a 4-th level backlash(Fireshield). I should've picked a nice missile weapon too...

I almost got Breached one time when my first SI: A expired, but I managed to re-cast SI:A a second before he finished his Breach spell.

After his Globe of Invulnerability and SI: Divination expired, I released my Spell Sequencer with three Remove Magic spells, which removed his Mirror Image and Invisibility. He recast Mirror Image, and I dispelled it again with Remove Magic. I had 4 Remove magic spells remembered, and had already wasted three plus my Sequencer.
The last Remove Magic went on his last Mirror Image.

Then I remembered that I am a thief with 100% detect illusions ability

He showered me with Emotions, one Greater malinson(which were ineffective since I was under a globe), and a Chaos spell vs which I saved successfully(I had either -4 or -5 save vs spells)

Remove Magic always dispells Mirror Image, even if cast by a low-level caster on a very high-level caster.

Then I began approaching the Coordinator in Melee. I killed his last summon in melee(a skeleton warrior). The Fireshield Blue did not harm me. He cast two or three Absolute Immunities, but eventually they ended. I cast my last SI: Abjuration, activated my Spell Trigger containing GoI, Spell Deflection and Improved Haste and killed him in melee.

Note: I had three Mantle and three Improved Mantle spells memorized which I didn't have to use. Otherwise, they provide complete protection against all melee attacks in this cave except for Coordinator's Mordy Swords.

Note: One of my Stoneskins was removed in this fight by the Coordinator with his sling, but I had three more Stoneskins remembered.

With the Bag of Holding obtained in this fight, I went back to the Promenade to better collect and sell Amnish Guards plate mails...

[Ryel ril Ers]

10 mill xp from the amnish guards? How many time did you spend with it. I think you kill your game experience. You must play a lot to meet hard battle now, and your npc-s will have more less xp than you. But if you like the game like it do.

The triple classes are very good in any party, the lose some level but they are very flexible. I love the f/m/c and i play with it in IA 4.2.

Please continue your story.

You can edit all of your post so please remove the docks pick pocket spoiler.

[saros]

10 mill xp from the amnish guards? How many time did you spend with it. I think you kill your game experience. You must play a lot to meet hard battle now, and your npc-s will have more less xp than you. But if you like the game like it do.

The triple classes are very good in any party, the lose some level but they are very flexible. I love the f/m/c and i play with it in IA 4.2.

Please continue your story.

You can edit all of your post so please remove the docks pick pocket spoiler.

I currently play with a solo F/M/T. But even a certain party can attain high levels of experience using this exploit. The party should consist only of neutral or evil NPCharacters (I think that Anomen or Jaheira are also unacceptable), since they don't object or leave even if the party's reputation is 'Despised'.

The triple classes have their enormous drawbacks. They start to gain HLAs at much more higher total xp score than a single classed character. There are also very powerful new items which can only be forged(or used by) a certain single classed character.

I've removed the docks pick pocket spoiler.

An additional little info: there is an item ingredient called 'Worn Out Boots' for a new recipe. Both Rindus and a certain named Paladin in the Bridge district (from the Fallen Paladins quest) have such an item, but it's not the real ingredient. I will not give away its location though.

[Ryel ril Ers]

Anomen is a must have npc for an evil party. After he fail his quest he don't leave after reputation drop, and he change.

The double and triple classes reach the HLA at same experience.

If i know correctly the max experienced NPC version is around 2.7 million xp, but possible that only aviable in ToB, so i think 1.2 million the max.

I also loot the enforcers but only if they are in our way when travel in the city. Earn 10 million XP is cheat, because if you think like a role player that is impossible. The city did'nt have that force, and after the 10th encounter you mustn't get XP for it, and finally after a huge massacre the city must be send stronger force. These things wasn't implemented, so the player must control it. If you didn't bother with it, thats your thing, but if you write it to a forum and feel pride for it, that is another story.

You do the same thing than somebody add xp and spell with cluaconsole or shadowkeeper. The difference is the normal cheater spend 10 minutes with it and you spend many hours with it. The cheese is when you use an unnatural thing in the game like cast spells offscreen or steal some very valuable item from a store, these thing solved by a good storyteller in the pen-and-pencil games. The cheat is when you get incredible resource with minimal effort. Don't bother with these exploit instead type the similar cheat, you spare lot of time.

I only give you an advise don't write down your cheater methods, because you only became fool in the community. If you will be happy from your game, continue, but spare yourself the guide.

Try the anvil without the exploit and write that guide down, and you earn some honour if that is that you like.

[saros]

I also loot the enforcers but only if they are in our way when travel in the city. Earn 10 million XP is cheat, because if you think like a role player that is impossible. The city did'nt have that force, and after the 10th encounter you mustn't get XP for it, and finally after a huge massacre the city must be send stronger force. These things wasn't implemented, so the player must control it. If you didn't bother with it, thats your thing, but if you write it to a forum and feel pride for it, that is another story.

You do the same thing than somebody add xp and spell with cluaconsole or shadowkeeper. The difference is the normal cheater spend 10 minutes with it and you spend many hours with it. The cheese is when you use an unnatural thing in the game like cast spells offscreen or steal some very valuable item from a store, these thing solved by a good storyteller in the pen-and-pencil games. The cheat is when you get incredible resource with minimal effort. Don't bother with these exploit instead type the similar cheat, you spare lot of time.

I only give you an advise don't write down your cheater methods, because you only became fool in the community. If you will be happy from your game, continue, but spare yourself the guide.

Try the anvil without the exploit and write that guide down, and you earn some honour if that is that you like.

I know your post is written in a good intention. Yet here is what I think:

Earning 10 million xp and spell scrolls and gold is cheat if done via a ShadowKeeper or a similar cheating program. I simply exploited a weakness of the mod. So it's cheesy and using exploits, but no cheating. That's why I spend many hours of battling Amnish guards instead of using a cheat code. Besides, I neither have SK, nor do I know any cheat codes.

The city may have such a force. Why not? It's a big city and I killed roughly about 2000 guards and wizards total so far.
You're right that the difficulty of the fights should improve. Yet this is not the real world, but a game(mod) with its own rules implemented. I play how the mod allows it, not how anyone thinks I should play.

I don't take pride in using cheesy methods. What I do is give away info. Anyone should decide for him/herself how and if to use it afterwards. If one thinks that my info is wrong, then he/she is welcomed to correct me with facts.

I don't want to earn any honour or respect by playing computer games or writing about it. I do it for fun. And I play however I want. With one exception: no cheating. Cheese: yes, exploits: yes. Besides, so many people have a lot more time than me to test the Anvil without exploits and have written their experiences. Why should I also do it? But here's the thing: by following the "strict" and "honest" road to victory, these players don't notice many exploits or bugs which are still present, nor do their notice subsequent events(bugs) from such acts. I do, since I'm looking to profit from them. The mod may not be won by a solo character in an "honest" way, but I will try to do it with exploits and thus will try to prove that the mod is doable in a (mostly) solo game. And if I fail, I will not write down that I succeeded.

The improved battles will be written down round by round, for anyone to see and test afterwards.

Some other info about my current game: the purple Bag of Holding turned out to be great. This one stores up to 200 different items. I loaded it with full plate mails six times and thus was able to receive the full price of my loot(1800 for each full plate). With the money(around 3 million gp) I bought everything I saw, either needed or not, and am currently with only a million gp.

With the help of Cromwell I managed to forge a cloak of protection +2 and a dagger +3 and a pair of Boots of Speed. Laeral's tear necklaces were gained in a huge amount from Amnish patrols. I also temporarily joined Jan in order to get his superior equipment, which I was able to use with UAI HLA. He joined and immediately received a huge quest xp reward, and his total joining xp was 1.2 million. Then he was disbanded.

The last thing which I tested (not present in my game since I reloaded) is forging the Improved Flasher Launcher. I wanted to see if it is usable with UAI. It is, but my PC cannot create the special ammo, but only use the crossbow as a +3 one with an extra attack. So I decided to keep my last (so far) Permanency scroll and reloaded.

[Ryel ril Ers]

"I know your post is written in a good intention."

Yes, i didn't want to harm you, i use some harm sentence, so exuse me. I only worry about your game experience. You install a tactical mod, so you wanted challange, but the exploit kill the challange. If you feel fun in this way, than i am glad, but i worry that you cancel your game because it is too easy. You meet challange in this way too but you must wait a lot to gain it. (Try the shade lord or the troll mound that are enough hard your character now).

I don't know Athakala how big, but a big city in the middle ages are between 20000 and 120000. So the 2000 is not too high for a very big fantasy city. I only want to say, they are very dummy, they must instead attack in a very big groups after the first tries. (That could a very good battle when 50 soldier and 8 mages attack your party)

Your infos are useful, because there are some exploit what musthave fixes. I also post lots of cheese methods (i try lot of things first because i worked one year at a programmer company as a tester so this is in my vain, after i test some method, i find the most effective what is cool for my party, and yes i love the emotion, that is the best thing when the enemy lay on the ground helpless in front my wild mage feet), but i didn't get any thanks for it (but there was some idea what thanked by sikret), only get you are cheeser because i always try cheeser methods, so i understand you.

EDIT: I read your posts in the Anvil forum. What with your 6 member party, do you use cheeser methods?

You have a mistake, don't needed fix all of the bugs and exploits. The players must controls own actions when the game allow cheating. Why? Because you gain more game experience and fun if you use clean methods. If you cheat (i don't want to do difference between cheese and cheat, because you use bug and implementation errors of the game like exploits, cheese or debugging options like the cluaconsole) you destroy your own game, and once you bore the game because it will be too easy and if you have successes, it won't as sweet as play clean and win.

This post has been edited by Ryel ril Ers: Aug 3 2008, 10:23 PM

[saros]

EDIT: I read your posts in the Anvil forum. What with your 6 member party, do you use cheeser methods?

You have a mistake, don't needed fix all of the bugs and exploits. The players must controls own actions when the game allow cheating. Why? Because you gain more game experience and fun if you use clean methods. If you cheat (i don't want to do difference between cheese and cheat, because you use bug and implementation errors of the game like exploits, cheese or debugging options like the cluaconsole) you destroy your own game, and once you bore the game because it will be too easy and if you have successes, it won't as sweet as play clean and win.

First of all, I started indeed a six-person party game, but this game is very slow progressing, since I'm paying much more attention to my solo game. And once again: I don't use exploits in the six-person party game. I use them in my solo game, because everyone knows or seems to think that IA 5.0 is impossible to win with a solo character, if played by the mod's rules. I intend to prove that it may be very hard to do, but it's possible. A challenge, of a sort, for which I need a proper preparation.

You are of course absolutely correct that there will always be bugs and exploits, and it's up to each player to decide whether to use them or not. This is doable even in an original unpatched unmodded version of the game. However, there are some people who don't know about these exploits or what can be gained from them;I grant them the freedom of choice, I describe the exploits to grant them this knowledge. What will they do afterwards with it is none of my concern.

I don't use CLUAconsole. Nor shadowkeeper. I use the weaknesses of the mod itself, i.e. what's INSIDE a normally installed IA game.

Now to my recent adventures.

Since I seem to have forgotten my CD3 and 4 when I began my vacation, I decided to clear all areas available on CD2: Slums(without the Sphere, no way to reach Valygar), City Gates, Graveyard, Bridge District, Waukeen's promenade, Docks and Government district, and finally, Watcher's keep. Fortunately, I had taken the first steps of the Mae'var's quest and had completed the illithium ore quest and had begun the Dawn Ring quest.

I again deployed the Amnish Guard killing, and brought my levels to 30/25/34, for more HLAs and the maximum 9-th level wizard spells(and more powerful Remove Magic too).

Afterwards, I acquired again 3 million gp from sold full plate mails, and the city had almost nothing more to offer for sale.

Then I completed the Mae'var's quest, which was altogether unmodded, with the exception of the fact that Rayic Gethrac had a nice starting contingency, including SI: D, so I guess that he will not be as easy to a very low-level party, but will be doable.

Before this quest is started, it is wise to buy everything you like from the Temple of Talos, because after stealing the necklace, this will be impossible. Inside this temple are sold not only the regular temple stuff, but also some relatively powerful items.

Before the quest is finished, it is good if you've bought everything you need from Gorch. Gorch has a bugged slot in his shop inventory, this particular slot contains a Mace +2(seems like he has unlimited). Same kind of slot is present in Ribald's shoppe, that one containing a Ring of Animal Friendship currently.

After joining Edwin, I was unhappy to see that he didn't receive any quest xp reward and joined at 220 000 xp or something. I thought that according to level of my PC, all further joining NPCs should be with 1 200 000 xp!

I dismissed Edwin and killed Mae'var alone. And got my quest reward from Renal.

Afterwards, I decided to kill Renal Bloodscalp. I knew(from the vanilla game) that he had Boots of Speed. But I also knew that Arkanis Gath is protecting him with an uber weapon. Fortunately, the Uber weapon(as i remembered) was a sword of +3 enchantment. So I cast Improved mantle and attacked Renal. No Arkanis Gath appeared, and what is more strange, the guards outside and the thieves on the first level of this hold didn't go hostile afterwards. This maybe means that I could join Aran even if I killed Renal?

No matter. I collected my prize from the body of Renal and departed to join Bodhi.

Note: I am totally unaware of the modifications made to vampires in Bodhi's lair. All I've heard is that Tanova in the graveyard is made a lot more tougher.
But I am positive that the thieves are not modded in any way. With one exception: the thief/mages which appear on the first and second level in the Hold(NOT in the basement). Those mages open with a starting ImprovedInvisibility/SI:D/Mirror Image contingency, but they are of relatively low level.
I also carried the last battle with Aran out under three Time traps, so my reports on this one aren't 100% helpful.

Anyway, when I joined Bodhi, I was able to obtain a lot of enchanted shortswords and crossbows +2, some leather armor +3, an elven chain +1, a ring of Djinni Summoning, several Cloaks of Protection +1(from dead mage/thiefs), but unfortunately, no Ring of Lock Picking(seems to be obtainable only if one joins Aran), the Rifthome Axe +3 was also in my possession. This all is easy treasure, not to mention the fact that the Improved Mace of Disruption is also very quickly assembled this way, and all the treasures in Bodhi's coffer are also available for looting(several gems as I remember).

Besides, once I joined Bodhi, the thieves' hold was renewed, meaning all chests/containers became reloaded. This way I acquired some additional potions and gold, and an additional diamond.

If the vampires are indeed greatly modified, then joining sides with Bodhi should be much more easier and much more profitable for any player. The drawback is that this way, fewer overall experience is gained.

After obtaining the Amulet of Power from Aran's body, I faced the City Gates' Grave lich.

SPOILER!

I came inside fully buffed. In order to have 5 SI in my fifth level slots, I consumed 2 potions of Acid resistance(bought from temples) and 2 potions of Insulation(amnish guard fights random item reward) before the start of the fight.

What I discovered the hard way, is that this lich's attacks are considered to be of more than +3 enchantment(although the lich uses the Rod of Terror +3), because my Improved mantles weren't helpful in any way. I reloaded(but only once) because of this.

So I had to rely on PFMW. Too bad I had only 3 of those: one memorized, one in Contingency(triggered immediately) and one in Spell Trigger. No matter, I had a plan.

The lich's ruby rays managed to strip me of everything except my Globe of Invulnerability and my SI: Abjuration. This was achieved with the help of an additionally re-cast Spell turning, since the lich had five Ruby Rays.
I also Ruby Rayed him twice, to bring down his own SI: A. Afterwards I tried a Spell Sequencer with three remove magic spells, which were absolutely useless.
In between spellcasting, I attacked the lich with my Boomerang Dagger.

The Globe was essential, since the lich released its spell sequencer afterwards, containing Greater Malinson, which was ineffective.

Afterwards, the lich began approaching me in melee, and even wasted 2 of his ProMW(when approached in melee, it will often activate one). I patiently waited for its ProMW to end, and in the meantime, renewed my SI: A. I also summoned a Planetar, upon whom the lich cast Grave Silence, and they engaged each other in melee.
I continued hurling my Boomerang dagger at the lich(the lich is immune to missile type damage but the dagger still helped remove its stoneskins), and even interrupted a couple of its spells.
The lich released several fingers of death, prismatic sprays and Bigby's crushing hands, against which I successfully saved
The lich Timestopped before I was able to activate my ProMW. Fortunately, the lich had just killed my Planetar when the TS ended.

I have to mention that the lich had wasted at least 2 more ProMW in its fight against the Planetar.

I approached the lich several times, and since it didn't activate any ProMW, and its Fireshield had expired, I cast my Spell Trigger(containing ProMW), and charged in melee, with ImOD main and Daystar off. Seems like this lich was immune to ImOD's effects, since I didn't see any save vs death made in the dialogue box. I also renewed my SI: A while under ProMW, and cast DuHM and Energy Blades too(with Daystar off). Then my ProMW ended, I retreated and began hurling Energy Blades at the lich with my Critical Strikes. The Daystar off-hand also hit the enemy from a distance while I held the discs(a well-known issue, which had never been fixed, in any mod or fixpack). The lich was immune to the second portion of the Daystar' s damage, as well as to the Energy Blades' lightning damage, but the physical damage was enough, and I didn't even had to cast my last Energy Blades.

Afterwards, I was able to assemble my first weapon +4, the Grandmaster's Dream

I also assembled a ring of protection +3 and a cloak of protection +3.

I killed Mencar's group, and since I used Time traps and they were of relatively low level compared to my own, I will not describe the battle. Just one thing: Mencar carries several valuable potions, which he consumes immediately. For a low-level party, I'd suggest that the party's thief should pickpocket them while Mencar is still neutral, before the fight had begun.

[Ryel ril Ers]

You are only a simple cheater. Yes there are chance to finish the game in solo but only because your exploits and cheats. You don't want help bugs, you don't search hard tactical battle. You are only want to finish the game in solo in all price to able to yell to everybody:
I done the impossible, i am the best, workship to me!!!

But the truth is more simple. You use all of the possible bug of the game and you are feel pride. You waste lots of hour to it. This is worst than you use editor or bruteforce cheats, because users of these things don't waste their time and reach the same thing finish the game with dirty methods.

You have more xp than able to reach in the whole game.

Read sikret's article about the cheat. I don't agree all of that points but i accept it, and my game more exciting, and harder. Instead of IA install lots of item upgrade mods and some tactical improvement what give you more reward than you work.

I don't have interest in your process anymore because it is very boring. I don't care your theoritically exploit free 6 member party too, because you are a simple cheater, and i never belive anymore than you able to play clean.

I don't write IA experiences to this topic because i don't want to people compare me with you. Anything else is only waste of my time.
Good by cheater!

P.S.:Sorry my harsh attitude but i don't want to players believe their tactical skills are good if they are use cheats and exploits.

[DavidW]

You are only a simple cheater. Yes there are chance to finish the game in solo but only because your exploits and cheats. You don't want help bugs, you don't search hard tactical battle. You are only want to finish the game in solo in all price to able to yell to everybody:
I done the impossible, i am the best, workship to me!!!

But the truth is more simple. You use all of the possible bug of the game and you are feel pride. You waste lots of hour to it. This is worst than you use editor or bruteforce cheats, because users of these things don't waste their time and reach the same thing finish the game with dirty methods.

You have more xp than able to reach in the whole game.

Read sikret's article about the cheat. I don't agree all of that points but i accept it, and my game more exciting, and harder. Instead of IA install lots of item upgrade mods and some tactical improvement what give you more reward than you work.

I don't have interest in your process anymore because it is very boring. I don't care your theoritically exploit free 6 member party too, because you are a simple cheater, and i never belive anymore than you able to play clean.

I don't write IA experiences to this topic because i don't want to people compare me with you. Anything else is only waste of my time.
Good by cheater!

P.S.:Sorry my harsh attitude but i don't want to players believe their tactical skills are good if they are use cheats and exploits.

Umm... last time I looked, this wasn't the Olympics. If someone's enjoying the game on a certain style of play, what's wrong with that? Some others may not find it interesting to read about that person's game; some may. That's fine. One's preferred style of play for a computer game is a loooong way down my list of things worth generating moral outrage!

[saros]

Umm... last time I looked, this wasn't the Olympics. If someone's enjoying the game on a certain style of play, what's wrong with that? Some others may not find it interesting to read about that person's game; some may. That's fine. One's preferred style of play for a computer game is a loooong way down my list of things worth generating moral outrage!

Thanx. That's what I was trying to point out the whole time.

Anyone who doesn't like my reports is free not to read them.

Anyway, there are much more experience exploits which Sikret himself had set. Any spawning sequence of unlimited monsters(either spirit spiders in Pai'na's lair, or the battle with the Guild's Contract: I've heard about Vampire Brides spawning there unlimitly, or similar places) grants to anyone the 'free xp exploit'. I haven't personally checked if the number of spawning monsters is unlimited while the local 'boss' is still alive, but I counted to 10 and then concluded that they will spawn forever and stop spawning if I kill the 'boss'.

I managed to make a new CD3. So I continued with the Temple District.

Some corrections: tough enemies like Mencar Pebblecrusher or the Pirates carry in their inventory a Potion of Magic Shielding, which I thought was pickpocketable. My recent experiences with Tagor the Henchman, Gajus and co. proved to me while they all carried potions of Magic Shielding, I was unable to pickpocket them. It was something like that:

5 Time traps were set far away from their group.
Kitthix was summoned
PC attacks Kittix and thus Kitthix became hostile and triggered the time traps.
Under an activated Time Trap PC approaches the named sewer group. This was unable under Invisibility or Hidden in Shadows since the talking sequence is always triggered and they turn hostile. So, I approached under Time Trap and pickpocketed everyone. No potions were looted, just some minor gems and ammo.
Then I tried a different approach. Reloaded, cast Improved Alacrity, in the time of casting my Planetar attacked Kitthix and turned him hostile, thus activating my Time trap, in the same time PC completed IA spell, charged the sewer group, and attacked Gajus with Critical Strike, Greater Whirlwind Attack *and* Assassination active at the same time. Gajus fell quickly. In the time of the second and third Time trap, fell Tagor the Henchman, and the rest of the group was easily slain.
Afterwards, I looted six potions of magic shielding: one from each enemy.

So in conclusion: tough enemies do carry a Potion of Magic shielding, which they consume right away in the start of the fight, that potion(and other potions in their inventory) cannot be pickpocketed, and extensive Time Trapping, plus most probably killing the leader(s) of the group intervenes somehow with the starting 'potion gulp' sequence.

I also managed to free Haer'dalis from Mekrath and kill the Horrid Rakshasa, and also the Elemental and Shade lich guarding the remains of Kangaxx. Those battles were relatively easy, but surely they will be very tough for a low-level party.

I was pleasantly surprised that after reaching mage level 26, my PC was given additional 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th level slots. Maybe at the next level my PC will gain 5th or higher level slots.
I temporarily joined Keldorn and tried to use his equipment, but even with items and spells, I couldn't bring my PC's charisma to 18(equivalent to Keldorns), but only to 17(Base is 4, Friends spell 10, Sensate Amulet 12, Nymph cloak 14, Helm of Glory(pickpocketed) 15, Plate of Balduran 16, Axe of Hrothgar 17). So Keldorn's armor and sword are yet unusable to me, unless I find a way to raise my Cha by 1 more point somehow).

BTW, my starting stats are 18/73;18;18;18;18;4: a (re)roll of 94 total.

Similar Charisma requirement was needed for the Chaos blade, but here the requirement was 16(equal to Haer'dalis), so I was able to equip Chaos. Unfortunately, the blade is nerfed in comparison to the original game, so it's not very useful now.

Strangely, the Harper pin acquired through Jaheira's subquest(I dismissed her afterwards) did not have any Stat requrements in order to put it on.

BTW, thanx to Jaheira's subquest, the Slaver's quests(both Copper Coronet and Slaver District) I was able to acquire a lot of +1 rings...well, enoough so that I could forge another +3 ring. Then I forged a +4 ring of protection, and due to a bug(I reloaded a couple of times to try to avoid it) one of my Rings of protection +3 was not consumed, but preserved, so now I have a ring +4 and another +3.

And another thing: when Haer'dalis was temporarily joined, he didn't receive any quest xp reward. Unlike Keldorn, whose starting xp was even 1.3 million total(with quest xp reward at joining). What is this: some sort of favouring certain NPCs? Why Anomen, Keldorn, Jan and others should receive quest xp reward at joining while Jaheira, Aerie, Haerdalis and Edwin do not receive similar rewards? Are they less favourite to the mod's creator and thus left nerfed?

[The Bigg]

Umm... last time I looked, this wasn't the Olympics.

Actually, I believe some people intend IA as a challenge rather than as a for-fun game... if you've ever played Nethack you'll know what I mean.

[Raven]

Umm... last time I looked, this wasn't the Olympics.

Actually, I believe some people intend IA as a challenge rather than as a for-fun game...

Is there some reason why a mod can't be both a challenge and fun at the same time? For me one of the main reasons IA is fun is because it is a challenge.

[The Bigg]

Is there some reason why a mod can't be both a challenge and fun at the same time? For me one of the main reasons IA is fun is because it is a challenge.

Of course not - I might have phrased badly. What I meant is that (like Nethack) IA is assumed to be a gaming challenge rather than something everybody 'deserves' to win to be able to be able to see the ending (which is fun for me). An interesting trend is that, in comunities surrounding 'challenging' games, usage of cheat is much more frowned upon than it'd be in comunities around 'permissive' games. For example: if I tell DavidW that I ctrl-y'd somebody, he'd be likely to ask me to try and formulate a way to make the battle less challenging, and/or suggest me a different approach. If I tell Sikret that I ctrl-y'd somebody, well...

Hopefully this is clearer

[coaster]

Reloaded, cast Improved Alacrity, in the time of casting my Planetar attacked Kitthix and turned him hostile, thus activating my Time trap, in the same time PC completed IA spell, charged the sewer group, and attacked Gajus with Critical Strike, Greater Whirlwind Attack *and* Assassination active at the same time.

So Improved Alacrity works on non-mage HLAs as well? Interesting, never knew that.

[saros]

For example: if I tell DavidW that I ctrl-y'd somebody, he'd be likely to ask me to try and formulate a way to make the battle less challenging, and/or suggest me a different approach. If I tell Sikret that I ctrl-y'd somebody, well...

Hopefully this is clearer

I don't use cheat. As I explained, I use the weaknesses of the mod itself, so-called cheesy methods. For instance, I didn't CLUA in any items/spell scrolls/experience, but limited myself to the variant of spending numerous hours of killing Amnish patrols for my low reputation, and thus received only a limited number of spell scrolls and other random items.

Improved Alacrity works wonderfully with everything which counts as 'spell'. This includes innate special abilities, which include warrior and thief HLAs. Spell Sequencers of various type also can be activated with the help of Improved Alacrity. Polymorphing special abilities also can be activated immediately. For instance, if I have previously activated Shapechange, had Spell Trigger remembered, and also have Assassination, hardiness, Magic Resistance, Greater Whirlwind attack, Smite, Critical strike and other special abilities(NOT granted by items, those doesn't count in here), I could cast IA, release my spell trigger(aura cleansed), activate GWW(aura cleansed), Critical Strike(aura cleansed), magic resistance(aura cleansed), Hardiness(aura cleansed), Assassination(aura cleansed), shapechange into Mind flayer(aura cleansed), shoot a Psionic Blast(aura cleansed), and attack with 10 critical intelligence draining attacks. By the way, trap setting can also be done with the help of IA much more faster.

My recent encounters and tips:

I decided to obtain a nice crushing +3 weapon and went to clear the De'arnise hold. This battle was very easy for my high-level character, so I won't describe it here. A Neo-Otyugh still managed to Disease(and almost kill me) since I play on Insane.

Tor'gal apparently was a high-level cleric, since his starting contingency was Shield of the Archons, Armor of faith, etc, no matter, he fell under a Time Trap(wouldn't wanna miss a valuable potion which he might swallow). Same happened to Glacius and I had 2 potions of Fire Giant strength obtained from his body.

With the Flail of Ages obtained, and also a Ray of Fragmentation, I went for the Guarded compound.

This was tough. I cast my long-lasting elemental resistance buffs, along with Spirit Armor, Blur, ProEvil and Mirror Image and also consumed a Hill Giant Strength potion, plus Improved Haste. The initiate battle on the first floor was decided by something like:

Summon Planetar
Trigger enemy spawning
Contingency: Death Fog(planetar stays behind).
Enemies except Skeleton Lords, Assassins and Golems fell under Death Fog.
PC focuses on Skeleton Lords with Daystar(Planetar helps by deflecting part of enemy attacks)
PC kills Skeleton Lords and starts banging the Assassins with FoA
PC casts DUHM
PC activates another Stoneskin and Mirror Image while killing the golems(2 Gem and 2 Coin golems)

PC casts Spell turning, Spell Deflection, Shield, Blur, ProEvil, sets 3 Time Traps, and summons Kitthix in the trap area.
PC casts the shorter-lasting buffs(Spell Trap, GoI, Improved haste, Mirror Image, Shield, SI: Abjuration, DUHM)
PC attacks Kitthix, waits when Time Trap activates and rushes to the 2nd floor under Time Trap.
PC detects traps on 2nd floor.
PC disarms trap.
PC has enough time to slay Sion under the Time Trap with Critical Strike.
Enemy Cleric summons Fallen Deva
The rest of Time Traps do not activate. PC cannot go down(for now), but Kitthix appears to join the enemy horde.
PC casts Improved Mantle.
Enemy cleric tries in vain some Hold Person and similar spells.
PC kills Koshi(critical).
PC kills Keta(critical).
Assassins start showing up.
PC kills enemy cleric.
PC manages to lure enemy to farther right part of the screen(piano) by using Summon Planetar, and afterwards summon Mordy sword.
PC rushes backwards to the stairs and lays yet another Time Trap.
Under time trap PC kills Manzerfan.
The last enemy fighter, the Deva and the assassins were easy to kill.

I *thought* this fight was hard until I discovered the Greater Elemental Golem on the same floor. Ugh.

I ran away because I didn't know what this was(a wise move btw). Fortunately for me, it didn't follow and I looted everything in sight and went outside to rest.

'So' I thought 'a golem'. Maybe my new spell, Ray of Fragmentation, would help?
Test 1: loaded Spell Sequencer and Trigger with triple Fragmentation Rays and charged the Greater elemental golem. No effect from the Fragmentation spell.

Reload.

After battling and reloading several times, I knew a few base principles(this is only my suggestion, I don't give 100% credit for being absolutely true, I write what I saw):

SPOILER!

Immune to magic at least lvl 1-8
Highly Magic resistant
Absolute elemental resistance
Highly resistant to physical damage
Slow regeneration ability
Summons Gem, Coin and Amber golems to its side quickly
Uses Purge Magic once every 4 or 5 rounds: this bypasses all protections and dispels all buffs on character(s).
Immune to Time Stop and Time Trap

I noticed that if I attacked it with summons only, it didn't summon additional Golems. Apparently, it has to see a party member to actually summon more help.
So I tried taking it down only with summons. But the summons just couldn't deal enough damage, and they were also easily slain, although I used a Planetar + 4 magical swords.

So my final strategy was:

Went upstairs buffed with Spirit armor, ProLightning, ProCold, Blur, Mirror Image, Stoneskin, a Hill Giant strength potion.
Summoned Planetar
Summoned Mordy sword*4
Cast Haste. In the same time Planetar lured Greater Elemental golem near the staircase. PC in the same time retreated to the piano(east part of the room).
Mordy swords and Planetar engaged Greater Golem in melee. PC is still out of sight and casts DUHM when I thought that soon will be Purge Magic.
My timing was almost excellent, i had to wait a couple of seconds when I saw Purge Magic in the dialogue box.
Charged forward. Had Contingency with Improved Haste, which now triggered.
Attacked three rounds with Critical strikes, FoA main, Guildmaster's dream off.
In the same time, two enemy golems spawned(Amber and Coin as I remember).
PC retreated away, fearing of enemy's Purge magic.

PC was able to repeat this tactic twice more, with an additional planetar summoned in the meantime, since the first was slain. PC also recasted DUHM.

Unfortunately, when the enemy Greater Elemental golem was at near-death and PC tried to retreat for the last time, there were very few summons left on the battlefield so the Golem chased my PC and eventually shot his Purge magic on me, dispelling all of my precious buffs.
Golem horde assembled around my PC(3 Amber, 2 Coin and 2 Gem golems), as well as greater elemental golem.
PC casts ProMW.
PC attacks in melee greater elemental golem.
PC casts improved Alacrity.
PC casts Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Ghost Armor, Hardiness, GWW attack and Critical Strike.
PC removed off-hand weapon temporarily, in order to have 10 Criticals with FoA only.
PC attacks Greater Elemental Golem twice in such manner before the IA ended.
Simultaneously end: IA, GWW, Critical, ProMW. Should've recast ProMW.
Stoneskin and Mirror Image are still running. I cast another GWW attack hoping to slay the greater Elemental golem before he Purges me.
Didn't work. I slew him, but he purged me.
Activated ProMW.
To no avail: enemy golems have me cornered. Nowhere to run.
Activated IA(last 9-th level spell, 3 IA and 2 Planetars for this fight). Cast:
Spirit Armor
Spell Sequencer(3 Teleport Fiends)
Mirror Image
Prot from Elec
Stoneskin
Minor Sequencer(Blur+proEvil)
Hardiness
Improved haste

Golems were teleported around, freeing me some space to maneuver. I ran inside one of the rooms, and used the narrow entrance to force the golems to come inside one by one.
Drank a Fire Giant str potion.
With the help of my Mordy's swords(3 7-th level slots left, I had all 7-th level slots occupied with Mordy Sword for this fight) I slew the first and second Amber golem(seems to be less resistant to Slashing damage). The Coin and Gem golems were relatively easy, since they proved to be less resistant to Crushing damage, so FoA took care of them. I had 2 more ProMW, and 1 more Mirror Image, and 2 more Stoneskins, so my defences were sufficient. I also activated a Spell Trigger loaded with Skeleton Warriors, which served as a meat shield to some extent.
The last Amber golem was slain via Frostreaver main and Axe of Hrothgar off hand.

[Sikret]

I accidentally noticed that Raven has posted in this thread and decided to come and see what is going on (as I've said before, I don't usually read topics in this side-froum).

Umm... last time I looked, this wasn't the Olympics.

This criticism can be correctly aimed at saros (not at Ryel). saros has heard that IA v5 is not soloable and he has decided to disprove it by any means. Of course, poor saros has forgotten that the complete statement was this:

"IA v5 is not soloable without cheating".

He keeps cheating and keeps saying that he is not cheating (something which as Ryel said has made a fool of saros in the forums).

If someone's enjoying the game on a certain style of play, what's wrong with that?

Do you really think that saros is enjoying his game? I'm completely certain that he isn't!

If you read his posts you won't find even one single paragraph in which he has said anything positive about the mod or about his game. His tone is negative everywhere. He is not enjoying anything exactly because he has not left much to enjoy. He has ruined his game, not only by excessive use of cheats and cheap methods but also with the innate duty he has defined for himself to win the game with a solo character by all means.

He has even admitted this in one of his posts above:

everyone knows or seems to think that IA 5.0 is impossible to win with a solo character, if played by the mod's rules. I intend to prove that it may be very hard to do, but it's possible.

He doesn't play the mod for the extra challenge the mod adds to his game, he is playing it to challenge other players!

We tried to help him in friendly ways in the past. Raven warned him against his playing style in Bioware forums in a diplomatic and friendy tone. I warned him in much more friendly ways here in IA's forum. There is also a warning in the mod's readme file; but he ignored all. Now, there is little he can enjoy from.

First of all, he has deprived himself of most of IA's best quests by deciding to play solo. This much can be put aside; perhaps he doesn't care for new quests.

Second, he has cheated lots of xp/gold/items to make his protagonist a demigod. He had not done any of the game's major quests when he had more xp than it's possible in the entire game.

The funniest part of the story is that he gives instructions of how to gain those free xp and items as if other players don't know how to gain free xp in the game. Perhaps he is too naive to realize that all players know various ways of gaining free xp in the game; the fact that they don't use them doesn't mean that they don't know how.

All of the xp exploits saros is using in his game (except the one with amnish guards) had been already reported to me long before by other players and they are all blocked in IA v6. However, those other players who reported those exploits to me didn't use them in their own games. They realize that there is absolutely no difference between using those xp exploits and using CluaConsole to give xp to your characters.

Even with his uber-protagonist, he is still playing cheesily and with cheap methods. Running, casting spells from offscreen, etc, etc.... Just read his reports of his battles with the sewers party or with the Greater Elemental Golem to see what I mean. All those battles are doable with sound tactics even by far lower level characters who do not have even one single HLA. saros doesn't know sound tactics, but he reports his cheap methods as if they are true tactics. This is another proof for what Ryel said.

His playing style will also add self-created bugs to his game. He will later return to report those local bugs as if they exist in everyone's game.

Cheesily killing enemies before they turn hostile (similar to what he did with the sewer party) will cause bugs in his game, because some enemies are scripted to set certain global variables after truning hostile. Those global variables will be used in future events. Moreover, certain important items are scripted to be generated in the enemies inventory via script after the enemy turns hostile and checks certain variables in his script. Cheesily killing those enemies before they turn hostile or by excessive use of timetraps offscreen (and activating those traps by attacking your own summoned creatures to make them hostile), will mean that those items will never be created in the enemies inventory. To make the long story short, there are several ways a cheater and cheap player can corrupt his own game or punish himself. Bug reports from such players are totally useless for us.

I will edit the "Cheat and Cheap.pdf" and will add a section to it about why not to cheat.

Actually, we have recently tested again and can confirm that the bugs saros reports don't exist in the game and even look to be sort of deliberate lies (the report about the nonexistent bug that Cromwell doesn't take enough number of +3 rings to forge the +4 one is one such example).

Returning to the question of whether saros is enjoying his game or not, we are certain that he isn't. Some battles are too easy for his uber-character (not to mention that he is still using cheap methods to win even those easy battles), but there are a number of battles in the mod which are not beatable even by a 40/40/40 level solo character with the best equipments. He will fail to win those battles even using his typical cheap methods, but he won't enjoy them either. He is in his olympics (to use your term)! He has decided to prove that he can do the impossible. So, he will probably forge a false and artifcial report of how he won the battles (it won't be the first time we see such forged reports). He will also probably add some sentences such as "this battle was tough" to make people believe that he has actually won it. He will probably know that people such as Raven or me (who know the mod very well) will not believe him, but it won't matter for him. Nonetheless, he won't enjoy his game at all. He has ruined his game by ignoring our recommendations.

As for why Ryel is angry, it may not be easy to understand for those people who are not dedicated tactical players. It can indeed be frustrating for Ryel and most other players to see that a cheater speaks as if (or to pretend that) he is a tactician.

[DavidW]

Do you really think that saros is enjoying his game?

Since he's probably not being paid for it, probably not doing it to research a newspaper article, and almost certainly not under a geas... I'm guessing yes.

This post has been edited by DavidW: Aug 6 2008, 06:40 AM

[saros]

If you read his posts you won't find even one single paragraph in which he has said anything positive about the mod or about his game. His tone is negative everywhere. He is not enjoying anything exactly because he has not left much to enjoy. He has ruined his game, not only by excessive use of cheats and cheap methods but also with the innate duty he has defined for himself to win the game with a solo character by all means.

This mod is very good. It was proposed to me by Raven (a.k.a. touch_of_the_wild on Bioware forums). IA adds many hard battles and new items, which I enjoy very much. If I haven't said that, now may be a good time, but I think I already mentioned it in some of my posts (which were afterwards deleted by Sikret).

The funniest part of the story is that he gives instructions of how to gain those free xp and items as if other players don't know how to gain free xp in the game. Perhaps he is too naive to realize that all players know various ways of gaining free xp in the game; the fact that they don't use them doesn't mean that they don't know how.

NOT everyone. For instance, people unfamiliar with the mod might not know them. And even you, Sikret, did not know about Amnish guards exploit.

Even with his uber-protagonist, he is still playing cheesily and with cheap methods. Running, casting spells from offscreen, etc, etc.... Just read his reports of his battles with the sewers party or with the Greater Elemental Golem to see what I mean. All those battles are doable with sound tactics even by far lower level characters who do not have even one single HLA. saros doesn't know sound tactics, but he reports his cheap methods as if they are true tactics. This is another proof for what Ryel said.

My uber-protagonist is more than able to defeat the most tough enemies met so far by using non-cheesy tactics(except for the twisted rune, I've tried several times, no luck yet). The cheesy methods described like pre-activating Time traps and similar were made so that I could obtain enemy's Potions of Magic Shielding, and most of the enemy's spell scrolls(which enemy mages usually read in thick of combat).
Running(or tactical retreat) was always part of some sound tactics. In IA running away at double speed from enemies is disabled(unlike other mods), and anyway, most of the enemies are hasted so they run as fast as the protagonist, not to mention certain 'Invitation' type effects, like magic lasso, etc. etc.
Defeating enemies with a high-level character in IA is a lot more harder than using an entire party of six relatively low-leveled characters (even worse, all pre-generated characters). For instance, against the Elemental golem, many fighters, supported with magic, can win the battle much more easier and quicker than a single uber fighter.

His playing style will also add self-created bugs to his game. He will later return to report those local bugs as if they exist in everyone's game.

Then, of course, this appears to be weakness of the mod. If one intends to play the mod however he/she wants without using codes or cheat programs, and still receives bugs because of his playing style, then the mod is not perfect yet. IA is very good, but, as it tries to re-do the whole game, bugs are inevitable. So I think that it shouldn't be "Don't play the mod this way, because you'll get bugs", but instead "Try the new version of the mod, it has fewer bugs and we will appreciate if you test it for further bugs and report them, so that the next version is even more bug-free and anyone is free to play however he/she wants".

I report bugs as I discover them in my current game. Since I don't cheat(according to mod's rules), then they do exist for everyone who might want to play in a similar way.

Cheesily killing enemies before they turn hostile (similar to what he did with the sewer party) will cause bugs in his game, because some enemies are scripted to set certain global variables after truning hostile. Those global variables will be used in future events. Moreover, certain important items are scripted to be generated in the enemies inventory via script after the enemy turns hostile and checks certain variables in his script. Cheesily killing those enemies before they turn hostile or by excessive use of timetraps offscreen (and activating those traps by attacking your own summoned creatures to make them hostile), will mean that those items will never be created in the enemies inventory.

Some enemies turn hostile in the second I kill them. I don't know if I missed a single quest item this way, but I doubt it, because I got several quest notes this way, and in the final battle when I slew Sion, i got the special Rogue Stone(I think from his corpse).
This again seems to be a weakness in the mod, because I don't cheat. Cheesy tactics is not cheating IMO.

Actually, we have recently tested again and can confirm that the bugs saros reports don't exist in the game and even look to be sort of deliberate lies (the report about the nonexistent bug that Cromwell doesn't take enough number of +3 rings to forge the +4 one is one such example).

I am most than certain that I had only 2 rings of protection +3, and after the upgrade, I got one +3 and one +4. Two times after reloading BTW. Maybe the bug occurs rarely and only if certain conditions(maybe place of items in pack) are met???

Returning to the question of whether saros is enjoying his game or not, we are certain that he isn't. Some battles are too easy for his uber-character (not to mention that he is still using cheap methods to win even those easy battles), but there are a number of battles in the mod which are not beatable even by a 40/40/40 level solo character with the best equipments. He will fail to win those battles even using his typical cheap methods, but he won't enjoy them either. He is in his olympics (to use your term)! He has decided to prove that he can do the impossible. So, he will probably forge a false and artifcial report of how he won the battles (it won't be the first time we see such forged reports). He will also probably add some sentences such as "this battle was tough" to make people believe that he has actually won it. He will probably know that people such as Raven or me (who know the mod very well) will not believe him, but it won't matter for him.

I enjoy the mod, and the tactical challenges, and the moment I work out an always-working(no-reload type) system for a solo to win each of the improved battles.
I absolutely realise that Sikret and Raven are experts in this mod, while I'm vanilla. So I am almost certain that I would fail to win(and may be even too ashamed to write about it). But I won't write down that I won a certain battle if I actually haven't. I even won't write down a certain victory if I haven't done it several times in a row.

Do you really think that saros is enjoying his game?

Since he's probably not being paid for it, probably not doing it to research a newspaper article, and almost certainly not under a geas... I'm guessing yes.

Yes. I am.

P.S. I think that while my game has its exploits, it still may provide useful info to all players, whether they use or not cheese or cheap tactics.