Learning 3D, Questions Options

[HERD]

... and I need it right away:
what the hell did I do (clicked) so I can't move the sphere up and down? And the "move" cursor doesn't look the same.

 sc1.png ( 102.39k ) Number of downloads: 22

[Valiant]

Well, I see you have converted original sphere to editable poly. And you can´t move the sphere because you have "Edit vertices" button highlighted (it is the first one from the left, just below the "Selection" sign). At this stage you can edit sphere vertices. If you don´t want to, just click that button again, "Editable poly" sign will get grey color again and you´ll be able to move the whole sphere again like before... Of course, move cursor will get its previous shape...

[HERD]

This is too, but the main thing turned out to be (I think) that I hit "X" to see X-ray mod (??? - did not work), but then I remembered and hit it again (after an hour of frustration) - came back to normal.

Using UVW map modifier, sometimes works very well, sometimes not, need to read more

 RoofUVW.png ( 285.78k ) Number of downloads: 23

[Valiant]

True, X-Ray mod does this too, I totally forgot...

About UVW modifiers - in my whole 3d career, I´ve never used Unwrap modifier. I always worked with UVW Maps for every component. Yes, it takes a little bit more time, but if you´re not good in unwrapping, then bad unwrap and its correction will take even more. Just ask SK.

Hey, SK, send him untextured House01. He´ll see how it has been made, so he´ll be able to make his own based on it...

[HERD]

That would be nice, but I don't think I should take shortcuts like this, SK will probably suggest to suffer through all of it step by step.

[Sir-Kill]

hehe I hit that X alt X thing before, gave me hours of frustration as well
X = hide/show transform gizmo
Alt + X = see through mode

suffer through it hmmm... I like the sound of that muhahahaha!
EDIT: just noticed that this is a not a mansard but a changing slope hip still real tough. so the sudo tut might not be applicable
this is more than a pain. I started making a tutorial on this but have not gotten far enough to be of any help.
you are walking through a nightmare; properly mapping a mansard roof with a shingle texture is even tougher than a hip roof and those are not so easy either.

as far as suffering through it might not be worth it. I should send you my 'properly mapped mansard roof'
I had a good many hours logged and a good grasp of unwrap uvw before attempting this one and it still took about 10-18 hours getting it right.

but it helps knowing how to break selected vertices and how to weld them back together

tut in a nutshell w/o pics
try this
clone your roof. Shift + Move, select clone.
select 2 of the horizontal edges (above and below themselves) then click loop you should now have at least 8 edges selected.
now hold down Ctrl while clicking the vertice button (located just under the selection roll out) this will convert the selected edges to vertices.
now click the edges button again and this will take you back to your previous selected edges.
now click remove. this will remove the edges.
click the vertice button. this will take you back to the previously selected vertices.
now click remove again.

this will leave you with a much more simple model to texture.

once that is done nicely convert it to editable poly
then you can add back in the missing geometry (the edges you removed)
and shape it better, back to what it was.
then you can do some touch up with another unwrap uvw.

tut in a nutshell w/o pics

This post has been edited by Sir-Kill: Jun 29 2008, 01:33 AM

[HERD]

just noticed that this is a not a mansard but a changing slope hip

I was complaining about it in "it is just a box" - my first learning rant.
Why do I kinda see triangles there? In 3d I mean, because scale or bevel are used?
(I know it's bad, you have to make them quadrants)
I can avoid it...
But those are legitimate polys (or so I thought)

as far as suffering through it might not be worth it

Of corse it is. I used to spend months' ' ' to make a BG area, then SK came along and shone me how to use PH tools.
Seriously, I have to know basic Max tools (10,000 of them) to start of thinking of beeing remotely creative.

How about that hole in the wall, SK, meet me in the middle there.

This post has been edited by HERD: Jun 29 2008, 11:31 AM

[Sir-Kill]

it is closer to an explosion than a box, you have vertices going in all directions/dimensions. that is not so bad but on top of that you are using a shingle pattern which add a huge constraint to it. this is what makes it tough
you actually do not see the geometry triangles, that is just how it is mapped. so yeah those are legitimate 'quads'

it is not worth it because my 'properly mapped mansard roof', isn't, but it is as close to it as possible. so keep the geometry as simple as possible map it out then make the geometry more complex then use unwrap to clean up rough spots.

so it is kind of like val hinted to (if I am assuming correct) is create much more simple geometry and map that and build a more complex shape out of those simple shapes which, already has better mapping.

there are few ways to avoid trying to map out complex models, which to me avoidance (using simple geo.) is better than starting by mapping out a complex model.

btw box is comprized of 90 degree angles and and beyond that is 'getting complex'

[HERD]

Question about BG standarts
As I understand, it's Ok to move, rotate, scale etc. the model, but never change the camera view when rendering.
The light also set as standart BG light (in the Basic.max file)
What about scale, what kind of units or limits did you use (or is it done by eye, comparing with original buildings in game)
I think I start to understand how to use UVW maps, so if I had a uniformal scale, maybe texturing would be easier...

 HBGcam2.png ( 725.43k ) Number of downloads: 21

[Sir-Kill]

when building your scene you can zoom (field of view button located lower right when camera VP selected) in or out and change your render size to fit your needs. but this should be fairly early on.
the zooming will change the size of your objects thus scaling the scene.

my basic scene setup:
determine scene size. the aprox size of area you want to create. determined by renderer menu (F10). max bg size 60x80 (X64) but do you really want it that big?
is it indoor or out. if out, you can use those photometric IES Sun lights. it is not 100% accurate but very close and real fast when rendering.
if indoors use multiple omni lights. wherever the scene needs one you will have to set the attenuation for them. the far attenuation is probably the most important, setting the start and end closer together will give you a harder edge to the light, so you will probably want to space them apart for a soft edge.
then there is also decay you can set this to whichever you need. (set somewhere betweenf the near and far end settings in attenuation I like inverse square cuts it off quick but you can pick inverse or even none.
important under shadow parameters rollout: if you set the color or density less than 0,0,0 black and 1.0 the light will start to go through solid objects. now so you do not have 100% black shadows I found that no less than .8 can still work.

ok so scale is done by eye but val and I have been discussing a standard or a way to standardize scene development.
I have not actually tried it yet but in theory it should work. maybe val has tried this and can say how well it works or not
however in the mean time: door height is more important than roof line or a second story starts.

on a square/rectangle building a uvw box modifier with settings of 10,10,10 will stay at that setting even if you determine that you roof height is too tall. just grab some of those top vertices and bring them down. the stone texture will not stretch or compress and this is important when using a stone/brick texture since they should have some uniformity (then you add in randomness )

things that slow rendering:
poly count, shadow type (stick with speed shadow or shadow map since bg does not require photo realism ), texture size, and render size.
on render size and large areas: once your scene is fairly set where you like it you do not have to render the whole thing. you can use crop.
crop is located on the main tool bar all the way to the right (drag left on the toolbar to see more) from a pulldown menu (default is view). select the viewport (camera), select crop from the pull down menu, then click the teapot (quick render production) button. this will place a crop box in that viewport this is sometimes invisible do a left click drag in center of viewport to see). you can move and resize that box, then click OK. it will render the size you have set but only that portion that is in the cropped section. change it back to view to render the whole scene again.

This post has been edited by Sir-Kill: Jul 7 2008, 01:20 PM

[HERD]

...door height is more important than roof line or a second story starts.

Exactly what I thought, that the smallest door that opens-closes in the game should be the scale standart/unit!
If there will be a setting like this, it would be possible to make buildings in another file, then merge it with the scene...?
One more question: are the little plants all made in 3d too - Speedtree?
 Plants.png ( 26.41k ) Number of downloads: 17

[Sir-Kill]

yes merge is very powerful, unlike import it also takes textures and mapping coordinates and applies them. however the model you select to merge might not be to scale to what you are working on. but it is fairly easy to scale the difference, just make sure x,y,z are all scalling at the same time. but you will have to make a quick area file and try it out in game.

those plants are models that I scammed from oblivion remodeled them to lower poly but kept the textures, but as you can see they are too green, I ll need to revamp.

again if val reads this: did you try that BG scaling thing we talked about?

[Valiant]

...reading very sporadicaly, I´m on holiday - what do you mean by BG standard? Maybe I forgot something you write me in the past via PM, but the only standard I recall is the one renaming 3ds house models... Refresh me...

[Sir-Kill]

enjoy your holiday.
either create plane or use background image to the ratio of an existing bg area, use that image as a backdrop for scale.
like I said it should work but I have not tried it.

[Valiant]

I would say to create the plane. This is the way I use to work... To each his own...

[Sir-Kill]

so you did get it to work that way? cool.

[HERD]

Gotta be real dimentions :
X/Z/Y, if not , never mind

[HERD]

Is Mac really better now?
(Have to go with the flow?) (again?)

[Sir-Kill]

what?

[HERD]

Apple, said to be better for graphics