avatars, for this board Options

[Jab]

But about the atmosphere - I think BWL is the cleanest and warmest server on RPGing that I've seen. Just look at the colour scheme - the colours make you feel comfortable and at home. Take the g3 fro example - all white, as if you are in a snowstorm. PPG - white, gray and a little blue. Other forums - varying from brown to complete black. Shall i go on? Chaotic graphics? Where exactly did you see them? Perhaps the BWL logo? Which is one of the few graphical elements on the forum, except for the avatars and the smilies.

Comfortable feeling (because of graphic etc.) is subjective matter.

About the chaotic graphic... Logo is nice. But I don't like these little dragons next to the name of threads. And I think, that the description of these threads should be sometimes shorter. But this is not so important. It's just my subjective feeling.
This topic is about avatars. That's important for me now.

This post has been edited by Jab: Dec 10 2005, 12:33 PM

[balduran]

The dragons make perfect sense. It is called The Black Wyrm lair, afterall.

[Jab]

The dragons make perfect sense. It is called The Black Wyrm lair, afterall.

O course they make perfect sense, but they could be disturbing sometimes. Maybe smaller (small )dragons might help...

This post has been edited by Jab: Dec 10 2005, 12:41 PM

[Sir-Kill]

jab are you a modder or a player?

All you have to do is help out bw in some way to get a portrait.
think of the portraits as a reward, like having good credit you get better loan rates with good credit, should someone with good credit have to have higher loan rate just to make it same for everyone?

could you clearify what you meant by worst modding site. is it because we keep to generaly keep to modding topics and not focus on non modding topics?

[Jab]

jab are you a modder or a player?

All you have to do is help out bw in some way to get a portrait.
think of the portraits as a reward, like having good credit you get better loan rates with good credit, should someone with good credit have to have higher loan rate just to make it same for everyone?

could you clearify what you meant by worst modding site. is it because we keep to generaly keep to modding topics and not focus on non modding topics?

I didn't use "worst modding site".

I'm a player. And member of sigil team (with Vlasák, drake127, Razfallow etc.)

The sentence about loans is nice, but you are not a bank.

Forum is about community. You need admins, modders and "normal" members. So yes, you should focus also on non-modding topics (IE Games questions etc.).

[balduran]

I just had an idea, which will satisfy most people. Though it may require that the forum goes down for update again:

If any of you remembers PlanetBaldursGate, they use this system: Foum member can choose from a inforum gallery of portraits. After you reach the requirements you can upload your own image.

[Sir-Kill]

I like BWL, but your forum is the worst (compare to other modding communities).

sorry I was confused by this I said 'site' when I meant 'forum'.

Forum is about community. You need admins, modders and "normal" members. So yes, you should focus also on non-modding topics (IE Games questions etc.).

well this is a place for IE modding, however there is places where we can discuss off topic things if we want.

no we are not a bank that has money but we have banked up other things and our rates are great
it was just an analogy after all

BTW you can change the dragons in you control panel

This post has been edited by Sir-Kill: Dec 10 2005, 01:10 PM

[kulyok]

Hey, BWL is not alone in not allowing avatars. PPG does not allow to store avatars, too: you may upload your avatar from some site, but I, for example, will not do so, since it will steal another site's bandwidth.

Admittedly, BWL rules are stricter, however.

[Rabain]

The problem with allowing people to upload their own avatars is that you end up with cats, dogs, game advertisements, drawings etc etc that we feel would detract from the atmosphere we are trying to create here.

Personally I have no problem with members having there own portrait so long as the portrait is similar in style and feel to the current portrait selection. If anyone can think of a system that would allow members to select their own portrait but yet have it within these criteria please feel free to let me know. At the moment the only system I can think of is whereby members ask Admins to review and activate their portrait on an individual basis and to me that does not seem like a good system. I should note that the aim is also for everyones portrait to be unique.

[Jab]

Rabain: Well, I'm using this one: http://www.sigil.cz/webwork/4all/bwl3.gif
And Vlasák already told me, that he will upload it.

But you are right, that this system is not good enough. Well, but for the beginning, you could give access to members to IE portraits.

[drake127]

If someone cares about my opinion (I am really naive). I think that space requirements of storing avatars are negligible. Size of avatar is at most 10 KB (and I would not recommend to anybody breach this limit). If your board has about 500 users your folder with avatars does not exceed 5 MB. I can't stand remote linking from two reasons. First, remote loading really slows all page loading because you have to find (DNS lookup), contact and download proper image - locally linked avatars you can download directly so you will have page loaded (~second * AvatarCount) sooner.
Secondly you cannot guarantee availability of avatar - yes this task is on user himself but image will be unavailable at your forum!

One solution is in having a huge gallery where (almost) everyone is able to choose "his" avatar. Advantages are clear - you are in charge which pictures you want to see on your board and which not or take gallery as a complement for lazy users (novices).

Resolution of avatar is game without winner. Always someone appears who will think it should be otherwise. But my (subjective) opinion is that you should prefer content instead of form, discouraging example can be found at SpellHold Studios where resolution of avatars is enormous. Otherwise when you choose resolution too small people with higher resolution of screen loose details and avatars begin to melt. On my forum I try to maintain reasonable height of post (and it can be problem with custom of IE community to have really giant signatures) but for my forum appears to be best 100×100 pixels. I have another reason for smaller avatars - it does not distract from reading so even if here would be free space for larger ones, I would not fill whole space with avatar.

About BWL's policy to assign avatar for deserts I have mixed feelings. I do not execrate it but it is some form of user-hostility. If you going to change it so be it; if not so be it. I'd like idea about gallery which would includes IE games potraits - BG(2), IWD(2) is classic; PST avatars are beautiful and some of NWN as well (bronze dragon is mine).
About custom avatars I do not think it should be entirely forbidden but they should be related to RPG and assigned with care as you are trying to keep your own style (without any exceptions because the one makes the other).

This post has been edited by drake127: Dec 10 2005, 02:22 PM

[Rabain]

Space isn't a concern, we do have DHDC here afterall.

It is the other issues that are problematic.

[Baronius]

Rabain: Well, I'm using this one: http://www.sigil.cz/webwork/4all/bwl3.gif
And Vlas?already told me, that he will upload it.?

http://www.blackwyrmlair.net/portraits.php contains the portraits, and it can expanded by a new portrait if we agree that it suits the BG/IWD style even if it is not from those games. I think (and I doubt that anyone would disagree) that the portrait you linked to suits the RPG style of BWL forum.

So Vlasak will add your portrait there and activate it if you contribute in anything or do something that meets our requirements of getting a portrait from the official gallery (linked above). Otherwise it's not possible.

About the chaotic graphic... Logo is nice. But I don't like these little dragons next to the name of threads.

As Sir-Kill said, you can choose a different skin. We have several forum skins available, which can be accessed via your profile.

As for not allowing custom uploads, Rabain perfectly summarized my viewpoint as well:

The problem with allowing people to upload their own avatars is that you end up with cats, dogs, game advertisements, drawings etc etc that we feel would detract from the atmosphere we are trying to create here.

I would also like to react to balduran's words.

I have to agree that the logic of the "portrait policy" evades me. If it serves the purpose to destiguish forum members from BWL council, modders and other contributors, it may well be acomplished using the stars system. Council members have red stars, modders blue(or purple depending on the monitor) and so forth...

I don't see why this system is so unacceptable. Many members seem to accept the in-built gallery of graphical elements from IE games, and are using these images. Some of these items are so nice that once I even considered choosing one of them instead of a portrait. And Galactygon could use a portrait, but he prefers a Dagger +1!

As far as the stars are concerned, in case someone would feel anything negative in it, I'd like to clarify it: it is not for giving 'ranks' to people.
The stars help new users to see which people have forum editing permissions (so red stars show that the member is a BWL administrator and thus can help in many cases, and blue stripes indicate that this member has a mod forum here so you can easily recognise him as the moderator of the forum etc.). So they're not for showing "hey, I have a rank here, you little user!" to new visitors. (Stars are not a rarely used system. Many forums use it, in the IE modding community e.g. TeamBG used it, and AddonCZ uses it.

I'd like idea about gallery which would includes IE games potraits - BG(2), IWD(2) is classic; PST avatars are beautiful and some of NWN as well (bronze dragon is mine).

We tested these when BWL was founded, and agreed that PST portraits didn't suit the forum's style good enough (we tested this visually), and that we would use NWN graphics only if really needed (e.g. if the BG/IWD-styled portraits are all used up).

About BWL's policy to assign avatar for deserts I have mixed feelings. I do not execrate it but it is some form of user-hostility.

I admit that this portrait policy can reject many users, but I think that once the (intelligent) user has understood our principles, he will not find it hostile.

The number of BG/IWD styled portraits is limited. Other portraits don't go well with our forum, we tested it. Since the portrait number is limited, they shouldn't be given to every user. Windwalker worked lots of hours to make the BG-IWD graphics in-built database (which is available to anyone!), and I think the forum looks very nice if both portraits and these items are used.
Additionally, I don't see why it's wrong to give portraits to those only who contributed. Someone said that many people "have no time for the competition" or something similar... no one forces anyone to join the 'competition'. Because it's not a competition. It is good to reward those who help directly. I think that intelligent users doesn't find this hostile at all. It is acceptable. A real modder/player doesn't care so much about portraits anyway. And if someone wants to "chat a bit", he is welcome in BWL's General Discussion.

So giving portraits only to a specific group of members is not hostility. I think that real user-hostility (if it existed on this forum) could appear in the attitude and posts of BWL administrators. You can see many forums where administrators, in their posts, are making their position ("power") felt by other users etc. Have I (or any Council Member) ever done this?
Additionally, I don't think too many forums exist where the administrators work so much on the site and forum, and are so helpful as at BWL.

[Jab]

http://www.blackwyrmlair.net/portraits.php contains the portraits, and it can expanded by a new portrait if we agree that it suits the BG/IWD style even if it is not from those games. I think (and I doubt that anyone would disagree) that the portrait you linked to suits the RPG style of BWL forum.

So Vlasak will add your portrait there and activate it if you contribute in anything or do something that meets our requirements of getting a portrait from the official gallery (linked above). Otherwise it's not possible.

Never mind. It's not so important. And of course, I will not break your rules through Vlasák.
As I said, I'm a member of Sigil Team. So if I do something on internet, than I prefer our site (www.sigil.cz).
Ehm, just one note. Weapons (Items..) as avatars are not so good. I'm a human not a dagger. Maybe some people like it, but I don't think, it's majority.

[Baronius]

Never mind. It's not so important. And of course, I will not break your rules through Vlasák.
As I said, I'm a member of Sigil Team. So if I do something on internet, than I prefer our site (www.sigil.cz). 

I was sure you didn't want to violate our guidelines. By the way, I'm also sure Vlasak didn't want to do anything that is against our own concept.

Ehm, just one note. Weapons (Items..) as avatars are not so good. I'm a human not a dagger.  Maybe some people like it, but I don't think, it's majority.

You have a point there. It's a question of personal taste. I think that since this is a virtual place, and a place which is about tales and fantasy, there is nothing wrong when users select BG equipment. (However, while Lilarcor is a funny and powerful, I wouldn't prefer to be in his place. )

[Jab]

I'm also sure Vlasak didn't want to do anything that is against our own concept.

Of course.
But maybe I convinced him, that you should change something in your concept. But after all, you are in charge here. So if you said, that nothing will change, so be it.

This post has been edited by Jab: Dec 10 2005, 06:02 PM

[Baronius]

I am sure he will contact me (and the Council) if he has a new suggestion which we can discuss.

By the way, suggestions are always good, because they help BWL to improve its forums. So I don't say that these discussions shouldn't be here. It's always good when something is discussed (with tact towards each other, of course).

[drake127]

As for not allowing custom uploads, Rabain perfectly summarized my viewpoint as well:

The problem with allowing people to upload their own avatars is that you end up with cats, dogs, game advertisements, drawings etc etc that we feel would detract from the atmosphere we are trying to create here.

Mine as well but I would not forbid them at all cost.

So giving portraits only to a specific group of members is not hostility. I think that real user-hostility (if it existed on this forum) could appear in the attitude and posts of BWL administrators. You can see many forums where administrators, in their posts, are making their position ("power") felt by other users etc. Have I (or any Council Member) ever done this?

So you created form avatars something like rank, didn't you? But for most forums it's just feature how to faster recognize users. You are different and that's cause of that "hostility", people are used to have avatar and you denied it to them, didn't you?

[drake127]

And this avatar can say "you little user" itself and it is user independant and it does not depend on his behaviour.
On our forum we do not make any differencies between admins and mods except "Who is online" where admins are shown bold a mods italic. That's all and for us that's enough.

Edit: I cannot delete this post. I wanted to merge it with previous but I can't.

This post has been edited by drake127: Dec 10 2005, 06:38 PM

[jastey]

you should focus also on non-modding topics

No. This is a modding forum, and that's where the "focus" lies. I don't understand your problem, though: Feel free to discuss every topic you want in the appropriate subforums. There is one for every topic, including general, non-modding things.

For avatars: I go with what Rabain said. We want to preserve an IE game atmosphere here, and restrict avatars to IE game portraits helps this as well as to aquire uniformity that is unique in the IE modding sites and is very appealing imho. I see other sites with animated avatars which is one reason for me not to go there. For BWL I wouldn't mind every member having his/ her own portrait in BG style but as Rabain said the only solution I could imagine is every avatar has to be accepted and uploaded by an admin and I definitely do not have time for things like that.