Mod for NeJ3: Erevain Blacksheaf NPC Options

[Vlad]

Dual wielding is one of the best combat features in BG2, and particularly when you have a multi-class character. Adding AC and save bonuses to one of the weapons creates a shield effect. But the problem is technical. If I make his broad sword a two-handed sword then definitely he cannot put anything in the offhand slot. But otherwise, I have no idea how to block his second hand slot. I think it's technically impossible. But then if you put stars in the long sword, it won't make sense because actually technically he wields a two-handed sword although it may look different in the avatar. So, Bill, I suggest you live with his dual wielding which is great in my opinion.

[EDIT] I can create invisible, non-droppable item, even may be shield which gives him bonuses in his second hand slot, and it will be blocked forever. Is it what you want?

This post has been edited by Vlad: Aug 14 2015, 10:14 AM

[Bill Bisco]

As I'm reading and understanding, Two Weapon Fighting is good because it grants you an additional APR. An offhand Speed Weapon grants 1 APR to the main weapon and 1 APR to the Offhand Weapon. This is an ideal method

In the original BG2, there are only 2 melee weapons which increase APR, Belm and Kundane. In 2E, there are two specific weapons that are similar to these, the Scimitar of Speed and the Short Sword of Quickness. There are no official weapons that I know of that increase the number of attacks other than the Scimitar of Speed. There is however, a +5 version of the Scimitar of Speed in 2E. I would be perfectly fine with there being a +5 Long sword of Speed.

I want to meet your desire, Vlad to get good APR. In my mind, we should not sacrifice mechanical competence for flavor; we should try to get both. We have an advantage in that the max APR that the engine allows is 5 (10 with improved haste)

1. Erevain is written as a fairly traditional-style elf. Traditional Elves are cool. 1 sword in one hand and nothing in the other is cool.
2. We should find a way to make Single Weapon Style Competitive with the extra APR of two weapon fighting
3. The easiest way to implement this is to use a weapon that grants 2 more attacks
4. This allows easy switching back and forth between melee and ranged, flexibility is good and this naturally supports the traditional elf. The game engine does not support easy switching between 2 weapon fighting and a bow.

Disadvantages of a +2 APR weapon

1. Mary Sue-ish, no other weapon in BG2 grants such a thing, and it's really powerful.
2. We can't prevent Erevain from using two weapon fighting. A +2 APR offhand weapon would grant a specialist 7th level fighter 5 APR (1 main hand, 1 off hand, 2 bonus, 1/2 7th level, 1/2 Specialist). This is an extremely easy way to get 5 APR with minimum investment.
3. If other classes can equip the item, it makes them trounce fighters advantage APR wise. A +2 APR sword and anther +1 APR sword will make any character instantly have 5 APR.


Proposal:

1. Make Erevain's broadsword add +1 APR. This will mean his starting APR is 3 (1 base, 1 sword, 1/2 specialization, 1/2 7th level). This is equivalent to keeping the sword the way it is but having Erevain use two weapon fighting
2. Make Erevain's starting proficiencies be: Long Sword ** , Single Weapon Style ** , Long Bow ** . This will not prevent gaining Two Weapon Fighting Pips, but will incentivize Keeping the other hand empty for awhile.
3. Give items to upgrade Erevain's Broadsword to make it +2 APR, or introduce an item in late SoA or ToB that is a +2 APR Long Sword

I welcome your thoughts Vlad, and give that you're the current guaranteed audience for this modification, your opinion matters!

[Vlad]

Bill, when time comes, you'll send me the list of what you want I do: cre, stats, kit, items, list of dialogues, banters etc - everything in order, much the same like you're doing here.

By the way, watch Xan's solo in Durlag's Tower. I think this is how Erevain being fighter/mage/thief should act.

[Bill Bisco]

Hi Vlad,

I am fine with you coding everything listed above. Truly, having your help would be a bounty and enable this mod to be completed and perfected faster.

I edited the Description For Erevain's Sword and I updated his stats based on our earlier conversation. Erevain should have the outline of Everything needed for him to be codeable and playable even if he doesn't have everything else done yet.

I watched your Xan Durlag's Tower video and I admit some ignorance in how you got Xan's AC to -9, and that seems pretty good against those Skeleton archers. Erevain should be able to tank with Stoneskin up and his AC should be easy enough to raise. His HP will not be good though, but I suppose that's an ok tradeoff. Erevain being usable and useful ingame is important and I'm very open to your ideas.

In some ways coding Erevain might be good since you're close to completing BG1 and a test to see if everything meshes ok would be welcome.

My thoughts/concerns are the following

1. You definitely get author credit for the mod, but I need the freedom to modify it. I want to avoid a situation where I will offend you if I modify / add to the code.

2. I eventually want to try to use some of the more modern coding from the Weidu Chain (such as this from the Branwen mod)

CODE

CHAIN
IF ~InParty("O#Bran")
See("O#Bran")
!StateCheck("Cernd",CD_STATE_NOTVALID)
!StateCheck("O#Bran",CD_STATE_NOTVALID)
Global("O#BranCernd1","GLOBAL",0)~ THEN BCERND O#BranCernd1
~Branwen, you are well-versed in medicine. Why don't you become a healer, not a warrior?~
DO ~SetGlobal("O#BranCernd1","GLOBAL",1)~
== O#BBRAN ~'Twould be a huge insult to my honor! Me, sitting at home like a blind fishwife? Not for the whole world!~
== BCERND ~What of your children? Will they grow unattended like weeds, only seeing their mother between some crusade or another?~
== O#BBRAN ~If I have any, they will be strong warriors like their father, honorable and courageous. No one but Tempus himself will make my sons and daughters stay at home.~
== BCERND ~Perhaps there is some truth to what you say.~
== O#BBRAN ~Nay, you speak truly, druid. Some maiden will be happier for hearing your words. Not me, though. And not yourself.~
== BCERND ~True enough.~
EXIT

3. At some point after Completion and Bugquashing of Erevain Blacksheaf for NeJ, I'm going to want to convert the mod to IWD in BG2, IWDEE, and BG2EE. I know you don't like those mods, and I can understand that, but I don't want you to be offended by me taking steps to implement that myself later.

4. I don't know about the endgame for mod hosting. Because eventually the mod will work for multiple game types, it probably needs its own subforum. If I can get one on Black Wyrm Lair, great. I may want to take the mod to github at some point for ease of use in updating/downloading.

This post has been edited by Bill Bisco: Aug 16 2015, 10:05 AM

[Vlad]

Bill, I have no problems with you distributing and porting your NPC mod to any game you like. It's your mod, so you can do anything with it.

I use most of the WeiDU coding techniques including CHAINs. If you open NeJ codes, you'll see that.

CODE

CHAIN IF ~Global("VP_STB_Minsc","LOCALS",2)~ THEN BSHART STB_Minsc
    ~*Shar-Teel, being the first to rise, stands apart from the group and is readying herself for the day’s battles by practising her thrust and parry skills against an invisible foe. After a while she notices Minsc the ranger watching her...*~
=
    ~(*Pointing her sword at him and speaking gruffly*) You want something ranger?~
DO ~SetGlobal("VP_STB_Minsc","LOCALS",3)~
== BMINSC ~Ooh please, do not point your sword at Minsc. Shar-Teel looks wonderful the way she dances with her blade and I only wish to stand and admire the dance.~
== BSHART ~(*Still pointing her sword*) This isn’t a side show you know, so if you’ve finished admiring... go away!~
== BMINSC ~Side show... what is this side show? Is that where you go to learn to do this... this sword fighting?~
== BSHART ~(*Sneers*) Imbecile ranger! It’s plain to see why in battle you miss more than you hit. Flaying about and out of control like a lunatic, I’m surprised you haven’t stuck yourself with your own sword!~
== BMINSC ~Minsc is no lunatic! He is a berserker, a warrior of great skill and cunning. When evil hears my berserker battle cry, it brings great terror to its heart because evil then knows Minsc is on its tail and a mighty righteous butt kicking is coming its way... right Boo?~
=
    ~(*Squeak*)~ [BOONEJ1]
== BSHART ~Not to say any in your path will also get to feel this righteous ass kicking! There’s nothing skilful in charging in blindly swinging your sword in hopes of hitting something. That is why my skill makes me the superior fighter to you... to any man.~
== BMINSC ~(*He puts out his large hand and pushes the point of her sword away from him*)... Pooh... do you hear that Boo? Such pride Minsc has never seen before and lots of prideful evil have felt the force of Minsc’s boot heels or fallen to the edge of his sword.~
=
    ~Come Boo, this pride will also come to a fall soon... we will watch and see.~
== BSHART ~I’ve heard some daft things come out of the mouths of men in my time but that half wit ranger takes the cake.~
EXIT

But sometimes WeiDU handles dialogues improperly, not like I want. I prefer the safe coding and safe modding. That's why, in many dialogues, I still use the original and simple dialogue coding style BEGIN-SAY-THEN-END. There are many tricks I know how to do in WeiDU, and I am aware of many problems in WeiDU, which I have my own coding tricks to bypass. So, don't think that I don't know the modern WeiDU coding style. I simply don't like some of patching things, which are changed from version to version. Once I used one type of wildcards, but then it was changed, and I needed to rewrite a large portion of code. Another thing I detest is that WeiDU automatically updates all the EXE files in the directory to the latest version. Sometimes that causes errors during installations. I'd prefer to stick to WeiDU 185, which proved to be the most reliable for me. Anyway, all this is just lyrics, which have nothing to do with the actual mod.

You can have a separate forum thread here at BWL, of course. Just drop an email to Baronius.

This post has been edited by Vlad: Aug 16 2015, 08:40 PM

[Bill Bisco]

Vlad: A truly a most generous individual. You have my thanks and respect sir. I am even more excited to be working with you.

As as far as progress, I update the first 3 posts to add in new content and I am able to do this nearly every day. As stated earlier, I have written content for up to Dragon's Eye and am working on the dialogues for the first encounter. I organized the mod contents in a way that made sense to me. I'm happy to alter my organization if that makes it easier.

You're free to code whenever you wish at whatever point you feel is best for you. I will continue to write day by day.

I am aware that quality modding is cyclical, going over and over again until the finished product is of as high quality as possible. And, seeing the glut of mods out there, quality is definitely more important than quantity.

[Vlad]

Bill, please note that you'll meet Xan in Halruaa. Have you played the second part of NeJ3 already? Xan appears there as a senior student replacing the absent tutor in enhancement. He will give you tests to pass. Since the events take place in the past, he doesn't know you, and you cannot reveal yourself either. You are acting like spies in Halruaa. Think what would happen if he sees Erevain, his own cousin, in the party. Surely, he will recognise him, elves live long lives. Xan will start questioning Erevain, and you need to find a way out of this delicate situation. Maybe Erevain might tell the truth to Xan hoping that Xan would not reveal his own cousin. Anyway, I suggest that you reach Halruaa and decide for yourself how to deal with this a bit complicated situation.

[Bill Bisco]

Hi Vlad,

Sorry for the late reply. I haven't gotten to Harluaa yet. I am at the very start of the Severed Hand right now. My initial thoughts is that Xan will consider Erevain to be an impostor and will confront him in some manner. Beyond that, I am not entirely sure.

Depending on the flow and what I see there may be an opportunity to introduce Erevain's former mentor, pursuer, and nemesis Yalatheniel at Harluaa. Perhaps Xan will join the fight and aid Erevain. I'll have to see what opportunities present themselves and where introducing the Yalatheniel encounter makes the most sense.

I finally finished the dialogue for the Guthic encounter. I'll prioritize playing the game and figure out how to write the Xan interaction.

[Vlad]

Bill, please no fights in Halruaa, until it is absolutely necessary (like in some quests there and when nobody sees you), and only in the end of your visit there. And you don't have weapons there, only spells. And mages there are pretty tough and many. So, please think about peaceful solution or compromise or even small errand.

[Vlad]

Bill, I start making Erevain. I see there is a lot of material to add, so don't expect it will be too soon. Please supplement what's missing in the meantime (essential things like tree of life dialogue etc.)

[Bill Bisco]

Vlad,

Sorry for my absence these several months. I've gotten a new laptop and am slowly getting back into the swing of things. If you've started any coding let me know. Currently, I'm trying to code the Infiltrator kit in Weidu.

I'm quite willing to write more "necessary" dialogue. There's actually quite a bit that needs to be written. I'm at the point where I feel that I need to play and see the mod in action and write in bits as they're needed.

If it could be laid out easily what is "needed" then perhaps I could finish some of them sooner. I get the feeling that mod creation is a very iterative process.

Sincerely,

Bill

This post has been edited by Bill Bisco: Apr 9 2016, 03:02 AM

[Vlad]

Hi Bill,

Nice to see you coming back. No, nothing has been done. I'm now on my last walk through NeJ3 to release it publicly. After that, I'll have to switch to some freelancing scientific writing. So, your mod is currently upon your shoulders. You may want to get the latest NeJ3 version before you start actual play. If you need my advice in anything relating to modding and WeiDU, let me know.

Good luck!

[Bill Bisco]

Getting in the ins and outs of coding is very daunting. Yes, I'll have to have several questions to get through this. I'll try to ask others first and then here as needed since you appear to be busy.

I look forward to your public release. I really enjoyed NeJ3. It has quality characters, dialogue, and story.

[Vlad]

Bill, I start making your mod, but I need all the written material including major interjections on completing major quests, coming back in time, returning to Irenicus dungeon, on kidnapping Imoen, first impressions of being in Athkatka etc etc. Later all interjections where other party members comment and of course Tree of Life, in the Hell, ToB interjections and good and evil endings of the game - what happened to Erevain after ending of ToB. These are the most important things to write. And don't forget, he'll see Xan in Halruaa, they probably recognise each other being cousins? Optionally, he may refuse coming back in time, like Accalia, then you don't need to write all this.

This post has been edited by Vlad: May 7 2016, 08:35 AM

[Bill Bisco]

Hi Vlad,

Sorry I missed your message. I have been updating the Erevain mod at: https://github.com/billbisco/erevainmod/tree/master/Erevain

I have been making lots of baby steps towards getting the code working. I appreciate more why modding takes a lot of time and is truly only for people with serious passion! I have a lot of respect for you for the work and commitment that you've done.

I haven't gotten very far, but the Infiltrator kit works, so that something.

Right now I'm wanting to get Erevain's Custom items created and working, Erevain's Picture in, and the Dialogue that I've already written for Erevain in the game and working.

I definitely do want to write the interjections for what you've mentioned above and all the rest. I think several of these involve modding the area scripts too which takes some work as well.

I imagine Erevain as an Explorer who would definitely be curious enough to follow CHARNAME through time. (Accalia has a temporal lineage excuse ). I do want to write something for Xan's meeting. I admit to some writer's block on this. I'll probably go with something safe. Alternatively we could have some fun with alternate / diverged timelines with Erevain telling Xan things that he should not know yet

[Bill Bisco]

Vlad,

I'm getting a compiling error and I'm not sure why. The appended note is below:

CODE

EXTEND_BOTTOM DEREVAIN 11
+ ~("Join_Accalia","GLOBAL", 1)~ + ~Hrothgar is about to embark on an expedition to Kuldahar to investigate the evil forces plaguing that region. You should join with us.~ +mod_ErevainB1 END

Looking at Near Infinity, I should have the syntax correct, so I'm not sure what the problem is.



Any elucidation would be appreciated.

[Bill Bisco]

I figured out my problem. The code above should have been

CODE

+ ~Global("Join_Accalia","GLOBAL",1)~ + ~Hrothgar is about to embark on an expedition to Kuldahar to investigate the evil forces plaguing that region. You should join with us.~ +mod_ErevainB1 END

The above works and this problem should be gone.

[Vlad]

Spaces sometimes make a difference.

[Bill Bisco]

Hi Vlad. Sorry for my absence. I have been dealing with a lot of personal issues and I am much better. FYI, I had started some coding here: https://github.com/billbisco/erevainmod

The most significant coding work is the coding of Erevain's custom kit. The last thing I was trying to do was to slowly get the graphics right for a modified armor. I wanted to make the Bitmaps of the Bladesinger Chain be Black and Green instead of Gold and Green. I got stuck at that point.

I would still like to complete this mod before my time on this earth is up, but that will not be possible for some years. I saw your message on Spellhold Studios. You indicate that you coded something, but I have no idea what that is. If you have the motivation, then I can slowly contribute additional dialogues. There is a lot beyond just dialogues that I would like to do (Custom Items, Custom Battles, Upgradeable items) but I acknowledge that is a lot of work to design and code.

From a writing point of view, the difficult portion is remembering / finding exactly all the dialogues necessary to create a complete yet unique NPC. I have the sample Branwen NPC from Kulyok. I should probably utilize that as a base.

Let me know if you still want to continue with our initial idea of me writing the dialogues and you writing the coding. If so, I'll get back to them. If not, it'll be a few years for me to create the mod completey step by step (including dialogues).

Thanks,

Bill

[Vlad]

Bill, I hope you are okay now. Don't let the problems in RL to take a control over you. I had many problems in RL before but at some point I've realised that I'm loosing control over my life. Just drop everything that drags you below and continue your way.

Please, don't spend time on items, scripts, kits etc. It's easy to do and I can do that myself. The most important and what is lacking is interjections. Take a look at your previous post where you summarised everything what should be done. The section 17 - interjections. Without interjections we cannot move with the mod because the character will stay always silent when other NPCs comment on everything. This is what you need to start writing right now. Start with the first dialogue with Arundel and then interject everywhere where other NPCs interject. Good example is Shar-Teel. Also, all interjections on major BG2 events, Tree of Life, the Hell interjections, ToB interjections and so on.

Take care, and I'm waiting for all this written material.