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[SparrowJacek]

You can have at most 5 or 6 creatures that have their gender set to "summoned" or something like that. Other creatures just ignore that limit, however there's a bug in the game, which makes you unable to summon anything( not even Wish djinis) if you reach that summon limit. That's the general behavior, I don't think that reloading changes anything here.

[critto]

By reloading Pekkae probably meant refreshing a character's spell book via magical rest, or so I understood. Does the lifetime of swanmays actually allows this? Or is it the feature of magical rest via wish that it does not advance the time (I can't seem to remember)?

Fundamentally, Jacek is correct about the current behaviour of summons, it's an engine level thing since the vanilla times.

[SparrowJacek]

Does the lifetime of swanmays actually allows this?

Currently they last for 2 turns, which allows for summonning all 15 of them (assuming 2x Wish rest)

Or is it the feature of magical rest via wish that it does not advance the time (I can't seem to remember)?

I've never used that, as I consider it to be a bit too powerful and random (maybe some 1 time use from an item or a skill, that has 100% chance for that, but can be used only 1 time?). But I am pretty sure it works instantly, otherwise it'd be extremely powerful against enemies, like removing their II + SI:Div, or SI:Abj.

[pekkae]

By reloading Pekkae probably meant refreshing a character's spell book via magical rest, or so I understood. Does the lifetime of swanmays actually allows this? Or is it the feature of magical rest via wish that it does not advance the time (I can't seem to remember)?

Fundamentally, Jacek is correct about the current behaviour of summons, it's an engine level thing since the vanilla times.

No I actually just reloaded an old save game and had a look from there.

Magical Rest does't advance time, it just gives you immediate benefits of "rest", so all spells, abilities are regained as well as items are replenished.

Can also confirm that summons work as described here. If I'm not mistaken, Clan Spirit is also counted as a "non-summon" as are the Swanmays.

I figured out the APR's of the summons, does Smilodon only have 1,5APR? I think the leading summons APR-wise are Noble Spider, Clan Spirit followed by Greater Djinn & Swanmays. The rest have between 1-1,5APR. I think.

Could someone confirm the STR stats of Noble Spider & Swanmays? I'm trying to figure out currently how to buff them (it's quite hard to conclude based on attacks).

And did Swanmay have some sort of special attacking prowess? Lowers resistances? When/how does that happen? Do all of the Swanmays have it?

(Thanks again).

This post has been edited by pekkae: Aug 16 2023, 12:09 PM

[SparrowJacek]

Yes, Clan Spirit, Swanmays, Noble Spider, Djinni and Smilodon don't count to summon limit right now, not sure if that's all creatures, or not.

Btw Pekkae, you might just join your summons using Ctrl+q command. It will work for stats, not sure about any other parameters, I vaguely remember that some stuff was counted wrongly, but it's been like 7 years, since I tested that.

If you need any more info, I'll provide it later today.

[pekkae]

Yes, Clan Spirit, Swanmays, Noble Spider, Djinni and Smilodon don't count to summon limit right now, not sure if that's all creatures, or not.

Btw Pekkae, you might just join your summons using Ctrl+q command. It will work for stats, not sure about any other parameters, I vaguely remember that some stuff was counted wrongly, but it's been like 7 years, since I tested that.

If you need any more info, I'll provide it later today.

Cool, thanks! Smilodon has 3 APR.... Haha, how mistakes was I. (actually that's because it's hasted by default),

The only question I have is regarding the Swanmays special attacks. I think they had something but it's not in the stats.

Also, Smilodon seems to be immune to improved haste?

(Thanks!)

This post has been edited by pekkae: Aug 16 2023, 12:23 PM

[SparrowJacek]

I checked only Swanmay Queens and if an enemy hits her, he must save vs breath at -3, or have AC and save vs breath increased by 1 for 60s. This is cumulative. Ofc such enemy also gets suffers some damage. Swanmay Queens are also protected from all (well most) stuff, that changes their resistances (protection from fire/cold/elec/elements/magic energy etc) and are immune to most "shield" like spells (fire shield, elec shield of Amber Golems etc).

Edit: Smilodon is hasted by default (normal Haste) and is immune to IH and Slow

This post has been edited by SparrowJacek: Aug 16 2023, 07:48 PM

[critto]

Shield immunities are more of a necessity to prevent the infamous resonating shield bug that keeps popping up despite being fixed over and over again all these years

[pekkae]

Thanks for replies! And the ctrl+q trick.

Now I can plan a little bit about how to optimize!

[bulian]

Regarding summons, I did some unofficial theory crafting on summons a couple of years ago, Pekkae, and my conclusion was that 2x vagrant 2x avenger 1x necromancer 1x sorcerer was probably the best balance of OP summons and ability to buff them.

To start: 2x swanmay queen, 4x big swanmay, 4x swanmay, 2x clanhunter, 2x smilodon, 1x noble spider, 1x djinni, 1x skeleton lord, (17x monsters + 6x party). Summon clan hunters first so they can buff others (regen/barkskin), djinni has haste. Necromance/sorcerer can buff summons as they can in with IH or others. Buffed swanmay queens and clan hunters are incredibly powerful. Total of 5x rounds for the vagrants and 2x rounds for the avengers.

Cast IA, buff IH and protection buffs on summons, wish: rest

Repeat summoning but include 4x MS:VI/MS:VII. cast wish: improved haste on everyone in area, RVE: regen, cast MS:VI/VII.

This gives a total of 4x swanmay queen, 8x big swanmay, 8x swanmay, 4x clan hunter, 4x smilodon, 2x spider/djinni/lord, 5x MS:VII, 6x party members. Total time is around 11 rounds.

[pekkae]

Regarding summons, I did some unofficial theory crafting on summons a couple of years ago, Pekkae, and my conclusion was that 2x vagrant 2x avenger 1x necromancer 1x sorcerer was probably the best balance of OP summons and ability to buff them.

To start: 2x swanmay queen, 4x big swanmay, 4x swanmay, 2x clanhunter, 2x smilodon, 1x noble spider, 1x djinni, 1x skeleton lord, (17x monsters + 6x party). Summon clan hunters first so they can buff others (regen/barkskin), djinni has haste. Necromance/sorcerer can buff summons as they can in with IH or others. Buffed swanmay queens and clan hunters are incredibly powerful. Total of 5x rounds for the vagrants and 2x rounds for the avengers.

Cast IA, buff IH and protection buffs on summons, wish: rest

Repeat summoning but include 4x MS:VI/MS:VII. cast wish: improved haste on everyone in area, RVE: regen, cast MS:VI/VII.

This gives a total of 4x swanmay queen, 8x big swanmay, 8x swanmay, 4x clan hunter, 4x smilodon, 2x spider/djinni/lord, 5x MS:VII, 6x party members. Total time is around 11 rounds.

I comprehensively agree on this. There's a few "but" 's though.

"But" #1

Shaman changes things a little bit. While it doesn't have the utmost powerful summons, on a number of occasions it will be the ultimate "stay-alive" character because of mending + entropy shield (Swords + shaman is deadly!) Even Soothing fog is superbly useful.

"But" #2

I'm not really looking to circumvent with Wish:Rest. We should be fine without it.

So I think it comes down to Necro, Jaheira, Vagrant (Valygar), Shaman and then we have 2 slots open. I think we will end up with Keldorn the undead hunter for clerical buffs + comprehensively OP armour + judgement day and then we have one slot left. If we want to maximise summons & their buffs ir might be that we take a custom B/M (or Nalia), for Neera/Sorceror has many more spells but loses out too much in flexibility. Or if we can manage with Jaheira's / Necro's buffs (Jaheira has Giant Strength, Protection from fire/cold/elements, regen etc.) and Necro obviously with IH's, elemental protections. If Necro + Jaheira is enough, we will then take Hexxat for maximum easyness with tanking.

So ...

Swanmay Queen (GS, regen)
Greater Swanmay (GS, regen)
Greater Swanmay (GS, regen)
Swanmay
Swanmay
Skeleton Lord
Greater Djinn
Noble Spider (GS, regen)
Clan Hunter (GS, regen)
Jaheira's Smilodon (GS, regen)
Shaman's Smilodon (GS, regen)
Sunnis
Greater Yuan-Ti x 5
+ our most OP "normal" combat prowess as in
Keldorn
Hexxat
Valygar the Vagrant
Jaheira
Shaman (Spirit while under Spirit Shift)

-> This should be quite deadly.


Then IH's from Wish. Aid + Chant from KelDorn, bless from Shaman/Vagrant or so. Regen's from Jaheira/Shaman/Clan Hunter. GS's under IA from Necro or from Jaheira.

This should be doable with Necro + Jaheira. It should leave us with almost a full round of whacking away with the crew.

If it's too inconvenient, we'll switch Hexxat with B/M (/Nalia).

Oh btw. Bulian, I read some of your jounals for inspiration. Good stuff there!

This post has been edited by pekkae: Aug 22 2023, 02:43 PM

[Nominar]

Is IA still only supported for EEv2.5? For the life of me I cannot figure out how to install an older version of the game, neither through GoG or Steam (I own the game on both platforms).

[critto]

Is IA still only supported for EEv2.5? For the life of me I cannot figure out how to install an older version of the game, neither through GoG or Steam (I own the game on both platforms).

Yes, and it will be in the foreseeable future (I can only take a look at it properly after the fabled v7 version).

As for how to install, it's pretty easy. Right click on the title in your Steam library, hit Properties, then select a submenu called Betas, and in the selector "Beta Participation" choose BG2 EE 2.5. Make sure you uninstall all mods beforehand because Steam will download some stuff to readjust the game accordingly.

On GOG, in your game library find BG2:EE, and there will be a separate installer available for download in the Extras section.

I can make some screens for you, if you still can't find it.

[Nominar]

Thanks, now I know! Although the GoG 2.5 version says it's for 32bit windows, hmm...

[critto]

Thanks, now I know! Although the GoG 2.5 version says it's for 32bit windows, hmm...

That's because 2.5 is the last version of the EE engine compatible with 32bit systems. They dropped the compatibility in 2.6. But the game will run fine on 64bit Windows. Unlike Apple with Macos, Microsoft has not dropped support for executables with 32bit architecture yet, to my knowledge.

[lroumen]

short question. The noble efreet in the underdark,does he lower fire resistance or does his improved fire shield do that?
I cast stormshell with my shaman as well as protection from fire and cold, but the resistance only goes to 50%, which puzzled me slightly. I did not see any combat messages and therefore I was wondering whether the stormshell does it's thing correctly when cast on party members.

[critto]

I cast stormshell with my shaman as well as protection from fire and cold, but the resistance only goes to 50%, which puzzled me slightly. I did not see any combat messages and therefore I was wondering whether the stormshell does it's thing correctly when cast on party members.

He should cast it himself, the spell applies -50 incrementally. What might have happened is the character got hit by lowered fire resistance than you cast Fire Res and Storm Shell. Then you'd be at positive 50 fire resistance.

[lroumen]

Thank you, that is alright then. I did not spot any message in the combat log but I will pay more attention next time.

[lroumen]

Does false dawn work properly against shades? I do not see an effect against them. I am now at a high enough level that they are meaningless

[SparrowJacek]

Does false dawn work properly against shades? I do not see an effect against them. I am now at a high enough level that they are meaningless

In v6.6_BETA, or standard v6.52? I think that it would be better to use v6.6_BETA thread to ask questions about it, as it's a separate entity right now.