Suggestions for the coming release Options

[pekkae]

I think that could be an option at least. Obviously I have no idea about modding / required changes so there's that.

What I meant was for the graphics only, the enemies aren't really relevant I think.

[SparrowJacek]

Hahaha, isn't the current fight against Demogorgon enough? Why torment the poor baboon even more?

Such second final to WK quest might be an interesting idea, I will need to take a look at all new areas (and finish all new quests from EE!), to see what's possible. PS:T definitely has some outlandish and unsettling locations, SoD also uses such aesthetics in its final parts. We will see, though I think that firstly we need to polish some existing fights, there are a few that can really be made more epic and harder!

This post has been edited by SparrowJacek: Jul 17 2023, 03:12 PM

[pekkae]

It's one of my favourite fights!

And also would like to battle the demos horde, the demogorgons largest army. To me, it sounds like fun

Another idea, this one quite a lot easier, is to improve the drow city. I used to just whacking my way out but it feels rather silly, the whole city is supposed to be on me, after the ritual and there's like 15 npc's to whack.

Another idea (#3) is that there's a lot of potential I think in those EE ToB quests. And I don't think people do those at all (has anyone done Dorn's quest in ToB?). They could be improved & activated for all PC's. The maps are very nice.

This post has been edited by pekkae: Jul 17 2023, 06:01 PM

[ed boy]

For a second fight, one options is something involving the seals. Defeating Demogorgon banishes him to the abyss, but only temporarily, he'll return in a few decades - the Good approach to WK is to do the ritual scroll and reinforce the seals without ever fighting Demogorgon. Similarly, the most evil way would be to do nothing, as he'll escape from the deteriorating seals.

A second WK fight could be to introduce some kind of seal guardian - anyone interfering with the seals (even positively) would summon the guardian, so the good resolution to the quest would have to defeat the guardian to reinforce the seals. Similarly, an evil character might decide to deliberately weaken the seals. This would involve fighting the seal guardian, and the character would get Demogorgon's blessing at the end instead of Helm's blessing.

[kilorew]

Alternatively after you defeat Demorgorgon you run into a uber disgustingly strong (Just like you should be at this stage!) party of 6 fellow adventurers outside that have come to watchers keep themselves for the treasure but are too late and try to kill you for it.

I'd imagine it would be hard to balance a fight difficult enough for a party that was strong enough to beat Demogorgon, but it would be fun to go toe to toe with another tremendously strong group of adventurers as well.

[pekkae]

That would be fun as well.

A fight against a party with e.g. a properly developed auramaster would be quite something.

I'm in the middle of a run at the moment and I have Jan Jansen along (we needed a thief). I think Jan is quite underpowered and I'm not sure about his personal item. Obviously spell slots are nice, but how can he utilize DR?

Could it be an option to give Jan one of the omitted spells, i.e. project image / simulacrum? That would make him special character and somewhat unique while also obviously upping the power-level quite a lot.

This post has been edited by pekkae: Jul 20 2023, 08:53 PM

[SparrowJacek]

Alternatively after you defeat Demorgorgon you run into a uber disgustingly strong (Just like you should be at this stage!) party of 6 fellow adventurers outside that have come to watchers keep themselves for the treasure but are too late and try to kill you for it.

I'd imagine it would be hard to balance a fight difficult enough for a party that was strong enough to beat Demogorgon, but it would be fun to go toe to toe with another tremendously strong group of adventurers as well.

Demogorgon has 5 followers, that all have unique and powerful abilities + hordes of minions are summoned throughout the fight. AI just won't be as good as an experienced player, so there's no chance that a 6 men "normal" party will be a real and interesting challenge after you've managed to beat the demon prince. They'd really need to have 99% resistances to all and each should drink like 5 potions of resurgence And that's not something we'd want to make. But who said that there has to be just 1 team? Maybe there's a guild of sorts, that specializes in impossible tasks, and you've just ruined their chance for solid income, which they really don't like. That's just an idea, that shows the approach that has to be taken in order to make later parts of the game interesting, without going too overboard with unrealistic enemy abilities.

A fight against a party with e.g. a properly developed auramaster would be quite something.

The problem with some enemy kits and classes is that the party usually has little interest in fighting non-evil enemies. So a good excuse would need to be created to fight enemies like Paladins (not Blackguards), some Clerics and even Druids.

I'm in the middle of a run at the moment and I have Jan Jansen along (we needed a thief). I think Jan is quite underpowered and I'm not sure about his personal item. Obviously spell slots are nice, but how can he utilize DR?

Could it be an option to give Jan one of the omitted spells, i.e. project image / simulacrum? That would make him special character and somewhat unique?

Well, when we rebalance Thieves, Jan (as a multiclass character) might have more inclination to go into melee from time to time. There might be times, when his PFMW/Stoneskin is breached/dispelled/finished and that 25% DR might just happen to save his life. And his other gear will probably become more valuable too.

[pekkae]

An idea for a new quest.

The player can follow demogorgon to it's own plane, the 88th layer of Abyss, after banishing it from the prime material plane to end it's threat forever and have an absolute blast defeating armies of monsters and demons. Defeating Demogorgons servants in Ungorth Reddik, the hezrous, sea trolls, icythoids and aboleths/skum. A final battle in Abyss, the demogorgons palace.

(optional, for crews surpassing 10Mexp points).

Also, as this is the request of Helm, it will provide the player with a few allies to work with.

My suggestion is that Helm's supreme golem joins the fight on the players side, as well as the helmite ghost. Supreme Golem will spawn elementals, who will spawn coins/gems . Helmite ghost is in awesome Fighter/Mage/shaman with a set of unique superpowers

Also, the allies are ocntrollable (as in charmed) so the player has control over them.

That would be fun, original and quite unique.


We would get to battle these lads, as Belcheresk, Nulonga etc. are already whacked.

"One of Demogorgon's largest armies is known as the Demos Horde. It is commanded by General Tetradarian, a clone of Aameul. The army's second in command is War Secretary-General Gromsfed the Drowned, a uniquely powerful klurichir demon.[5][6"]

Srouce: https://dungeonsdragons.fandom.com/wiki/Demogorgon


The reaoning is that because the PC whacked some of it's most loyal servants already, Demogorgon is seeking for revenge.

This post has been edited by pekkae: Jul 21 2023, 01:28 PM

[pekkae]

Well, when we rebalance Thieves, Jan (as a multiclass character) might have more inclination to go into melee from time to time. There might be times, when his PFMW/Stoneskin is breached/dispelled/finished and that 25% DR might just happen to save his life. And his other gear will probably become more valuable too.

I completely forgot about the thieves rebalancing. Well, it's super nice if it brings more utility to Jan.

[pekkae]

Thought about this for a little bit and came to the following conclusion.

Cloak of Atonement should be nerfed, it's too powerful as it is.

Version 1.

Has 5 charges, reload costs 75.000 gp (or so).

Version 2.

Has 50 charges. No change in costs. But everytime you use it, there's a 5% (or so) chance of the -1 con becoming permanent. But it gives out 60% Armor of Faith and 40% Shield of Archons.

Version 3.

Has X charges (3, 7 or 15 or something).

Can't be reloaded. The charges aren't visible (player doesn't know how many charges are left).

=>

All version aim to keep the Cloak in the game but would effectively make it available to specific circumstances, you have to balance using it & the bonuses very carefully.

[pekkae]

As mentioned in the other thread, I think Aerie should be a Shaman. She's a healer after all and the C/M is a little bit pointless (feel free to disagree).

- no change in stats, she's quite fine as she is
- no more might of avariel
- give her an armour (studded leather of Thorns looks like a fine template and it's so late in the game no-one uses that).

AC 3,
-6 vs missiles
+25% resistance to fire & acid
+2 spells per level (IA standard )
+armour gives her one use of divine intervention

or something like that. Can be forged with aegar's hide & elven stones, 2 scroll of memory boosting and 100.000gp or so?

This post has been edited by pekkae: Dec 18 2023, 02:44 PM

[critto]

Thanks for the suggestions. It is already nerfed for v7.

As for Aerie, I have considered it but it is not a priority at the moment.

This post has been edited by critto: Dec 18 2023, 02:45 PM

[pekkae]

As for Aerie, I have considered it but it is not a priority at the moment.

Allright. I think I'll try this on my own game & post a few notes of it!

[pekkae]

Thanks for the suggestions. It is already nerfed for v7.

Can I get the nerfed cloak somehow? Or can you send me the description of the nerfed one?

(I'll try to simulate it in my game, if I can't get the proper one)

[critto]

I think only the amount of charges got lowered. Pretty easy to adjust with NI.

CODE

Atonement involves making reparations, paying a price. The Cloak of Atonement takes this requirement literally. In exchange for protection and safety, it will leech the health of its wearer to power itself.

STATISTICS:

Charge abilities (10 charges):
– On use, this cloak can reduce the wearer's Constitution score by one point for the next 8 hours in order to perform one of the following functions:
  30% chance to cast Armor of Faith
  25% chance to cast Chant
  20% chance to cast Chaotic Commands
  15% chance to cast Death Ward
  10% chance to cast Shield of the Archons

Weight: 3

[pekkae]

Allright. Cheers!

[pekkae]

Item Suggestions

Since we werel toying with wooden horse necklace / amulet of seldarine at EDE. Could we get "an amulet of end times", that would combine the 10 (or so) existing amulets that one might have? Tried to figure out an item that would be powerful, but that it would not be mod-breaking.

So:

Sensate Amulet
Amulet of Seldarine
Wooden Horse Necklace
Periapt of life proctection
Amulet of Spell Warding
Necklace of form stability
Amulet of Whispers
Starfall ore
Manual of elaboration
Amulet of protection +1
2 Scrolls of Wish
5 Scroll of limited wish
2 potions of absorption
Demogorgon's Tooth (a drop from the guy on the floor when he passes?)
200.000GP

Improved Wooden Horse Necklace

AC +1
Saves +2
Hit points +10
Charisma +2
Magic Resistance +10%
Magic damage resistance +10%
Resistance to electricity +25%
Protection from evil
Bless
Immunity to silence (regular silence) (I know this is pointless, so maybe immunity to all forms of silence?)

[pekkae]

A few additional ideas.

I dislike the mundane micromanagement things. So in order to maximize flow (and minimize micromanagement)

1. Make numerous existing items attachadble to rings of protection +2. Especially since many will now include a thief (Sibel) in their parties, I think previously it was a custom to play without traps & locks.

- Ring of danger sense
- Ring of lock picks
- Gauntlets of pickpocketing
- Mercykiller ring

Or improve ring of burglary to include all of those properties + it gives out +2 ac + saves. The end results is the same, without swapping rings. Alternatively, ring of lock picks & ring of danger sense could be made as potions, that are consumable by thieves.

2. Could you include improved versions of reaching ring / ring of acuity, that can be cobbled together with ring of protection +2. This also minimizes micromanagement while the end results is the same.

So:

Reaching ring
Ring of protection +2
30.000GP

=>

Additional 5th, 6th & 7th level spell slots
+2 AC
+2 Saves

This post has been edited by pekkae: Jun 19 2024, 01:58 PM

[critto]

There's already a minor todo list item to review outdated item upgrades including the thief items, perhaps it will be done in not-so-distant future.

[kilorew]

Is it possible on IATweaks to perhaps have the option to ease the restrictions for protagonist requirement based forging's

Just realised I won't be able to do the JD fight on recent Druid run.