Toughening Monsters Options

[roshan]

Will this mod toughen the monsters and encounters in the game? Im not thinking of simply hit point increases etc, but new abilities and powers for the various creatures, as well as better ai.

[jastey]

Well, this wouldn't really be a "quest" so it is not the scope of this mod.

Nevertheless there weas a discussion as to how the huge amount of XP that can be gained additionally through the questpack should lead to "intensifying" some of the big in-game fights. If this happens (not decided yet) it would be according to the mod's outline, i.e. not the way you mentioned but by adding new encounters, enemies or such.

[roshan]

OK, thats good. I think that this should seriously be considered as the game is already too easy as it is.

[jastey]

roshan, if you have any suggestions concerning this or other things, do not hesitate to post your ideas in the "suggested quests" thread. We are always grateful for input and will happily consider it. especially if it contains concrete suggestions, as in this case as to which fight/ enemy encounter could be altered in which way (so that it goes along the line of a "quest"...)

A note: Although altering the existing monsters might not be the scope of this mod, of course we will take the design of the added ones very seriously.

[Galactygon]

OK, thats good. I think that this should seriously be considered as the game is already too easy as it is.

Then I might ask you to consider looking for a mod called "Fields of the Dead" at www.pocketplane.net.

-Galactygon

[roshan]

Yeah, but I dont like some of the changes to the game that FOTD makes. And, its not tutu compatible.

[Rabain]

We will be looking at the scripts for the monsters we are adding, definately. We won't however be creating scripts to cover every possible attack scenario.

We will take the existing creature script, perhaps shuffle if so that the creature uses it's abilities better and perhaps add some abilities that the creature should have in D&D (and already exist as spells in BG). We don't want to spend masses of time on scripting but we don't want monsters to just stand and get killed either! Some will have higher HP, better thaco's, resistances etc but not overkill and only where we feel it's appropriate.

In that sense, yes, I would say they will be tougher than standard creatures of the same type in the game.

[roshan]

OK, that sounds good. The problem in bg is that most of the monsters are quite weak, and they just rush at you and get themselves killed. Theres no challenge to the combat whatsoever, and since Ive just completed Icewind dale 2 on insane, the combat parts of bg actually feels too boring.

[Rabain]

I understand what you are saying. Especially if you play BG1 Tutu. Don't get me wrong Tutu is excellent but the addition of kits and their abilities, together with Ease-of-Use has made BG1 a kill-fest...it is just too easy!

Someone should make a mod for Tutu where all enemy creature HP are doubled and all thaco's are reduced by several points and couple this with the e-series scripts. I personally would go as far as to also reduce the XP available for quests and creature kills in order to slow the player down.

In Tutu you can nearly go straight to Durlag's Tower from Candlekeep (via UB of course), complete it and be level 6 or 7 (or even higher) without doing any other part of the game.

Yes balancing has become an issue for every mod maker to look at...seriously. Making these Optional components would in no way force the player to fight more difficult enemies, it's their choice!

Anyway Tougher enemies was not in the scope of Tutu (as a mod) but I feel is necessary now, whether it is by the makers of Tutu or others doesn't really matter if it prolongs playability!

[SimDing0]

Could you list some of the abilities BG2 characters gain that make Tutu too easy?

[Rabain]

I'm not going to go into details...I haven't got the time or the inclination for that kind of detail!

Suffice to say that I and several friends have played BG1 with Tutu and while I admit that part of the problem might be that we have played this game so many times there are no surprises anymore part of the problem is that nearly all of the Kit abilities provide advantages to players that BG1 cannot cope with or at least doesn't cope very well.

Resistances, Thaco bonus's, immunities, True Sight and the Inquisitors Dispel Magic are just some of the Kit abilities I feel have no place in a BG1 that has not been modified to cater for them.

Most abilities do have BG1 spell counterparts but rarely are these just "given" to a player as an ability, a spell has to be memorised and can only be cast so many times without resting. Minsc's berserk is more of a handicap in battle than a benefit more often than not! I personally believe the Kit restrictions have little effect in BG1, being more balanced in BG2 due to the level at which you start the game and the level/abilities of enemies.

That turned out to be longer than I intended...

[roshan]

Yeah, the kit abilities are too powerful, and they make an extremely easy bg1 even easier. I remember that even when I first played the game I hardly had to reload, except for a couple of times with Tarnesh!!!

Im actually playing with a mod that reduces xp gain to 50%. Im in nashkel and am still level 1. But the game is still too damn easy!!!!!!!!!!

I might try a party of 3 with xp reduced to 25 percent.....

[Baronius]

What difficulty level do you use? Core AD&D (level 3) or harder (level 4 or 5)?

[SimDing0]

I'm not going to go into details...I haven't got the time or the inclination for that kind of detail!

This isn't terribly coercive of us improving the experience. I'll consider the rest of your post-- we're trying to balance the BG2 kits better.

[Rabain]

Don't get me wrong, it's not necessarily anything wrong with the kits...just BG1's ability to cater for the added spells/abilities/bonuses that the kits give.

Perhaps applying some of the BG2 enemy scripts to BG1 creatures would help? I would prefer enemies to be beefed up a bit too, both in levels/Hp's and abilites. Though I suppose the BG2 enemy scripts have never been considered the best in the first place.

This isn't terribly coercive of us improving the experience.

You know how much time it would take to go through each kit and ability and highlight where I think they go wrong? I guess you do if you are planning to balance them better . That sounds like work to me...good luck with it...seriously!

[roshan]

Im playing on level 4 difficulty.

BTW, another really unbalanced thing are the weapon styles, specially single weapon.

[Rabain]

Unbalanced how?

I assume you mean Single Weapon Style is not good enough. I would say that it shouldn't be as good as the other Style's...I think it is only there for a better sense of RP. On a battle field a person wielding a single weapon (not a two-handed weapon) has a severe disadvantage compared to someone wielding either a shield and sword or a two handed weapon. I think the game has these balanced about right.

My feeling is that Single Weapon Style is only there to acknowledge that characters concentrating in this field would be better at using a single weapon than others also wielding a single weapon but not concentrating in that style. (Think for example of someone who has trained of years to use a longsword with no shield fighting someone who has trained with sword and shield but has no shield.)

In this sense Single Weapon Style is really competing with itself (single weapon use) rather than the other Styles. If it gave you bonuses that made it comparable with using a sword and shield what would be the point in using either..other than aesthetics?

[Salk]

There is no need for the TuTu team to make changes to the kits. It's just enough to make TuTuFixes compatible with Echon's excellent Fields of the Dead. This Mod brings in several innovations based on P&P as well several enhancements to the core AI although some, more advanced, were for now left behind (ex. Monster's active search based on line of sight) due to making the script too slow.

We can say that Fields of the Dead would find its natural place not in Baldur's Gate 1/TotSC but instead just in TuTu because the extra challenge added should be faced by a party who can take advantage of the extre features of kits.

This post has been edited by Salk: Jun 17 2005, 08:34 AM