V7 run (after years not playing IA) Options

[SparrowJacek]

Why are you using Kensai as a 2-handed weapons specialist?

I've played through a few times with a Kensai but I always dual-wield with water's edge off-hand (so 10 apr under ih). This is one brutally effective character.

Yes, it's effective, but since Kensai has abysmal AC, I prefer to use weapons with longer range. Only Crom/Hammer of Thor has the same range as 2h weapons IIRC, and you get it too late for me.

This post has been edited by SparrowJacek: Jul 6 2024, 03:57 PM

[pekkae]

Why are you using Kensai as a 2-handed weapons specialist?

I've played through a few times with a Kensai but I always dual-wield with water's edge off-hand (so 10 apr under ih). This is one brutally effective character.

Yes, it's effective, but since Kensai has abysmal AC, I prefer to use weapons with longer range. Only Crom/Hammer of Thor has the same range as 2h weapons IIRC, and you get it too late for me.

Yup.

Though what I found out is that on most of the difficult fights your non-maxed AC isn't that much help. On my 7.0 testrun I have a Vagrant along, and I have to play it identiclly to how I would play a Kensai if I want to dual wield -> so taking extreme care of positioning. It doesn't matter that much if the AC is -10 or if it is -2. I don't actually think that say a barbarian reaches competitive levels with AC at all. The same with a Vagrant.

The difference is ofc. that a Kensai is much, much more effective damage dealer. And ofc. if you have judgemenet day, it's the perfect weapon for a dual wielding Kensai - it will keep the character safe. Especially if you preload a little bit (= skins) before fights.

[bulian]

I've not done the max AC strategy myself, but it seems to me that the main difference in survivability between non skinned characters is physical damage reduction.

barbarian (innate + hardiness + new armor (80%)) > riskbreaker (hardiness + CBS (65%)) > vagrant (red coral armor + hardiness (60%)) = dwarven defender (innate + hardiness (60%) > kensai (hardiness (40%)

[bulian]

And ofc. if you have judgemenet day, it's the perfect weapon for a dual wielding Kensai - it will keep the character safe.

I like the theory crafting with it, but isn't the game effectively over once you have judgement day?

[pekkae]

I've not done the max AC strategy myself, but it seems to me that the main difference in survivability between non skinned characters is physical damage reduction.

barbarian (innate + hardiness + new armor (80%)) > riskbreaker (hardiness + CBS (65%)) > vagrant (red coral armor + hardiness (60%)) = dwarven defender (innate + hardiness (60%) > kensai (hardiness (40%)

Of course it is like that. But, since the game changes on insane/lob, it's not that relevant if you have 40% or 60% DR, you are still cooked in majority of the fights. So one has to find an alternative strategy. Of course double/triple regen tends to work better with more DR than less but even that might not save you.

So e.g. a barbarian on 6.5 & on insane isn't viable character (I think), it has troubles reaching any sort of competitive AC and it doesn't have the offensive tools to offset this, to make it wort while. So you need to utilize the same tactics, whether or not you have the upside of a Kensai in any case. Or that's what I found out.

The Kensai is also the only character that can "punch itself out of trouble" as well, as nothing lasts long vs. a 10 APR & critical striking Kensai (well, perhaps a Marilith with PFMW or so). And of course with a Kensai, you can just go all in on offense as the defensive side isnt' that useful. I tended to start dual-wielding once I got first 2-3 critical strikes. Then you tend to be quite safe, as even without JD once say vengenace trolls start spawning around you I'd just CS and they are like butter.

I like the theory crafting with it, but isn't the game effectively over once you have judgement day?

Well, once you get it you have at least 2-4 difficult fights ahead (Demo, "nasty orcsies", EDE the main ones), they are still difficult even with Kensai+JD. Demo & crew can still hurt you, a lot, even though your Kensai can just punch through Vargouilles with extreme efficiency.

This post has been edited by pekkae: Jul 7 2024, 12:58 AM

[critto]

Regarding the kill rate, it's not a very reliable metric because it is affected by dispatching of the mundane mobs. So really depends on the exploration style. Usually, when I play I tend to run ahead and explore with a single character who moves faster (Sibel is a good candidate here). Moving around with the whole party back and forth takes longer and is a bit annoying due to pathfinding issues. In my v7 testing game I had to make a conscious effort to play with the whole party even against the regular mobs to have more balanced kill rate values.

[nicoper]

Regarding the kill rate, it's not a very reliable metric

True, the only "quite-reliable" metric would be total of achieved damage amount. Kill rate goes to last hit, so weird result (I had Neera claiming Greater Dracolich in my run, she was by far less damaging it than others)

[nicoper]

I like the kensai item idea. You'd also mentioned a rework of the Hell encounter which is certainly something that has been on my list for a while.

Hi Bulian, forgot to say, don't hesitate to keep us (at least me) informed of your progress, and thank you very much for your "tweaks", they also contribute (as far as I'm concerned) to rejuvenate IA.

[bulian]

Thanks Nicoper! I'm glad you have enjoyed the modifications. Unfortunately, RL is very busy for me so my contributions will likely continue to be mostly supportive for the foreseeable future. Sparrowjacek is working on some really cool things for Tweaks right now, though, so stay tuned!

[SparrowJacek]

Yup, I'm working on a pretty extensive component, which will also include slightly modified Cleric Rebalance from IA v6.6. there's still much work to be done and at least 1 full playthrough to ensure some level of stability. I'll provide more info at some point in the future

[nicoper]

A question about Sibel quest

I made a new run
Forged howard gloves (with more coins than before) and asked for a city place
Did not find gloves with Bodhi, I presume this might be due to randomness or another location I have to find out (don't spoil please) because gloves are better (more expensive at least)
In chapter 6 I had the CC ambush (giving fruits)
Compared to the run in this thread, Leather golem has not appeared to talk to me yet
is it normal or do I encouter a glitch?

I don't use CTRL-J for information (to avoid missing messengers)

[Sikret]

A question about Sibel quest

I made a new run
Forged howard gloves (with more coins than before) and asked for a city place
Did not find gloves with Bodhi, I presume this might be due to randomness or another location I have to find out (don't spoil please) because gloves are better (more expensive at least)
In chapter 6 I had the CC ambush (giving fruits)
Compared to the run in this thread, Leather golem has not appeared to talk to me yet
is it normal or do I encouter a glitch?

I don't use CTRL-J for information (to avoid missing messengers)

Don't worry. The leather golem will appear three days after you find Howard's gift.

Do you have a Wizard Slayer in party in this run (as I suggested earlier)? I am curious to read your feedback about the kit.

[nicoper]

Don't worry. The leather golem will appear three days after you find Howard's gift.

Do you have a Wizard Slayer in party in this run (as I suggested earlier)? I am curious to read your feedback about the kit.

Thanks

No WS this time, Party necro/Imoen RB/KensaÏ/Sibel/Jaheira
I had nostalgia about necro quest and wanted to be more at ease with new divine Spells and HLAs. WoW is quite powerful, to me more useful than Natural Restoral. A suggestion would be to makle greater lightning able to be cast indoor (iirc there was such a spell, of lower level, in IWD) otherwise use is very limited, all the more for a HLA, IMHO

Maybe will try a weird party someday with a WS protag (in the past I took a RB protag once)

[Sikret]

Great Journal, nicoper!

Now may be will think a bit about another party (with a necroprotag, I love mages and miss Limak and secondtravel to plane)

Don't miss the new Wizard Slayer.

I think you missed this post of mine. Jacek posted simultaneously with me and you replied only to his post. At that time I guessed you didn't see my post.

[nicoper]

Currently finishing SoA with new party (Necro/Sibel/Imoen RB/Kensaï/Valygar), just WK4+ and hell left

Would say it is quite a powerful mix, basically a tremendous striking force with unlimited heal support
For my playstyle which consists in getting rid of enemies fast to avoid taking too much damage, it is perfect. For milking and/or getting max xp everywhere, or insane, I think it is not.

Tip for players who did not discovered it, with Sibel in parfty, doing all "normal" quests including hers is a good and simple way to be close but under spellhold cap. I mean by "normal" avoiding various fights fancied doing before spellhold: Teshal, Umar, illithid compound, windmaster, firkraag, Samia, Kangaxx (this one could be ok though), troll mound, guarded compound, elemental in sphere (Merella 1)
Theater, keep and ranger strongholds not finished (just cleric and mage up to marvella)

Couple of things (I have IA tweaks installed):
- Axe of lakesider +4 not usable by Valygar (I don't care here, but with other parties can be troublesome)
- In second travel to plane, I once saved (after lords before Balors), Force says I cheated (rested) and debuffed/miscast magic on everyone??? (I can understand resting is cheating, did not know it was possible), but saving between waves so as not to resume from start should be allowed IMO (I used it in previous runs). Here it was not a problem, party could endure without trouble balor's pfmw to expires, with Sibel/Jaheira/Valygar, bone golems are no threat. Easiest 2nd travel I ever had


Did not start EE NPC quests (Neera/Hexxat/Rassad), protag close from 7Mxp

[pekkae]

Currently finishing SoA with new party (Necro/Sibel/Imoen RB/Kensaï/Valygar), just WK4+ and hell left

Would say it is quite a powerful mix, basically a tremendous striking force with unlimited heal support
For my playstyle which consists in getting rid of enemies fast to avoid taking too much damage, it is perfect. For milking and/or getting max xp everywhere, or insane, I think it is not.

That's quite the progress! Congrats!

I don't think there's that big of a difference with tanking as Sibel can tank through most of the chapters with uncanny success. I guess RB can tank when AC is useless and when it's useful, Sibel can dominate. And obviously Necro is an amazing tank as well.

Tip for players who did not discovered it, with Sibel in parfty, doing all "normal" quests including hers is a good and simple way to be close but under spellhold cap. I mean by "normal" avoiding various fights fancied doing before spellhold: Teshal, Umar, illithid compound, windmaster, firkraag, Samia, Kangaxx (this one could be ok though), troll mound, guarded compound, elemental in sphere (Merella 1)
Theater, keep and ranger strongholds not finished (just cleric and mage up to marvella)

Yup, adding Sibel makes it super easy to max exp pre-spellhold. You'd probably miss a quest or two. Personally I would just leave the Shadow Temple to chapter 6, unless someone can hint an effective way of dealing with the Liches pre-spellhold (without breaking the xp cap for hardened spellhold).

Couple of things (I have IA tweaks installed):
- Axe of lakesider +4 not usable by Valygar (I don't care here, but with other parties can be troublesome)
- In second travel to plane, I once saved (after lords before Balors), Force says I cheated (rested) and debuffed/miscast magic on everyone??? (I can understand resting is cheating, did not know it was possible), but saving between waves so as not to resume from start should be allowed IMO (I used it in previous runs). Here it was not a problem, party could endure without trouble balor's pfmw to expires, with Sibel/Jaheira/Valygar, bone golems are no threat. Easiest 2nd travel I ever had

Did not start EE NPC quests (Neera/Hexxat/Rassad), protag close from 7Mxp

Do you have Valygar the Vagrant version or the protector version?

And since you are playing with Necro PC did you get the ranger quests as well? (I'm a big fan of those myself...)

[nicoper]

Do you have Valygar the Vagrant version or the protector version?

And since you are playing with Necro PC did you get the ranger quests as well? (I'm a big fan of those myself...)

Valygar protector (but axe description reads protector allowed)

I use IA tweaks to get Shimmering light and good/bad/ugly with any protag

[Sikret]

I guess the axe requires 19 CON and 12 CHA.