Script problems, NPC-default-script "ADVANCED AI" breaks dialogues Options

[Seewead]

So I forged this new topic. Didn't put my question in an already existing thread for clarity-reasons (I plan to make more posts on this topic in the future).

Here goes:

From your Readme (Rjali-Mod version 8.2):
"Nota: BG2EE v2's new ADVANCED AI breaks dialogues, especially for all types of rogue who are forever going into and out of search-for-traps mode. I recommend that you not use it. Unfortunately, it is the default, so you have to manually change it for each member of your party including your PC and any new join/rejoin NPCs. It is set for the PC only after Imoen joins in Chateau Irenicus. If you use the equip option, I replace all the ADVANCED AI default scripts with the AGEN script; this eliminates the possibility of using the ADVANCED AI."

If I understand this correctly, the default-script breaks my game, but you have the solution. But you are only willing to give it to me, if I install the cheat-options of your mod as well. Well, why are you so selfish? What if don't want your cheat-options? It should be an option, shouldn't it? Me personally, I do like a challenge, so I don't go for your cheats regularly.

See you, Seewead



Edit: Changed Thread-Title and introduction sentence




This post has been edited by Seewead: Jul 25 2017, 12:44 PM

[nullset]

I figure, if you use the equip option, I can justifiably muck with the script options. If you do not use the equip option and you want to take my advice on the AI scripts, you can do it manually for your protagonist and each NPC as they join/rejoin the party. The game lets you do this. If you want the challenge, you gotta accept the challenge of doing more things manually.

I did not say that ADVANCED AI would necessarily break the game. What it can do is break a dialogue which can result in variables not being set and other actions being missed. This might or might not break the game. This is unlikely to happen in the unmodified game because the game does not insert 3rd party comments into dialogue much (although I have not confirmed this). It is very likely to happen in multi-character dialogues of which the Rjali mod has a plethora.

[Seewead]

Dear Nullset,

of course you may have a point there. To "muck with the script options" of the game, as you so nicely put it, could come as quite a surprise for somebody who thinks himself installing a romance-mod only. So I would like to concurr with you, that the user of your mod should not get this kind of modification without his prior information / consent. Maybe the user should be given the choice during the installation-procedure? But I guess for most people it would be sufficient to provide an easy to find (and clearly to understand) part in your readme about this. People would be especially interested in the reasons for the change of the script and will then accept it willingly, I am sure about that. I myself am all sold now, because your argument is very strong: From what I understand by reading your last post, "in multi-character dialogues of which the Rjali mod has a plethora" [...] "it is very likely to happen" to get events that could result in "variables not being set and other actions being missed". Now, who would like to risk that? Though it would be important (for me), if you could explain exactly what your changed script does.

If [...] you want to take my advice on the AI scripts, you can do it manually for your protagonist and each NPC as they join/rejoin the party. The game lets you do this.

Uh... little problem here: There doesn't seem to be such an option in my game, though I just installed Rjali 8.2 from scratch. Did I do something wrong? Am I just plain stupid? I got the feeling that your AGEN-script is installed only together with your cheat-options?

If so, I would like to renew my proposition, if I may: Provide the script-change as an install-option for every user (cheat or not). After all, it would be a big dissapointment for everybody, if the default-script of the game should ruin the enjoyment of the Rjali-Mod. Otherwise an unmistakable warning in your readme for potential game errors would be helpful, should the user not go for the cheat-option.

Good night, Seewead

[nullset]

Hi Seewead,

The following has been added to the readme. Unfortunately, it only occurs in the Rjali post of the readme, and is not yet included in the mod download.

Q: More info on the ADVANCED AI scripts, please. What does the AGEN script do? How the heck do I manually change the script?
A: OK. YOU ASKED FOR IT! Rogues using the AAI scripts are almost permanently in search-for-traps mode. When such a character enters a dialogue as a third party, the script first drops them out of search-for-traps mode, which action prevents their interjection from occuring which stops the dialogue dead in its tracks. Any subsequent actions generated by that dialogue are lost which will lose some of the game and might even break it. The AGEN script is the basic fighter script: see enemy/get attacked = FIGHT! To manually change a script: select character; go up to the character screen; click CUSTOMIZE; click SCRIPT; you now have a list of the available scripts of which STANDARD ATTACK = AGEN. When I said "The game allows you to do this", I meant the GAME allows you to do this. If the equip option has been chosen, the ADVANCED AI option will give you the same as the STANDARD ATTACK option, and the original ADVANCED AI scripts will NOT be available for use. Without the equip option, you use the ADVANCED AI at your own risk. You have been warned and, as an advance on your expected experience, I TOLD YOU SO!

I know I am being lazy here, but I am extremely reluctant to change the mod install options as this involves getting changes made at BWS which is like wading through mud. If I don't change the install options, I can go merrily on my way making changes with no major hitches in the BWS install. I get a hell of a lot more help from Baronius at BWL than from agb1 at SHS.

P.S. - Even with the equip option, you can manually change scripts per the above. It's just that the ADVANCED AI option will just spit back the AGEN script. - RBJ

This post has been edited by nullset: May 10 2017, 12:25 PM

[Seewead]

Allright, now we're getting to something.

First of all, now I finally unterstand what you meant with the expression "AGEN-script". Found it in the "scripts"-folder in my game directory: there is a file named "aGen.BS". For mere mortals like me it is the "STANDARD ATTACK"-script, like it is called in-game; you already wrote that in your last post.

Rogues using the AAI scripts are almost permanently in search-for-traps mode. When such a character enters a dialogue as a third party, the script first drops them out of search-for-traps mode, which action prevents their interjection from occuring which stops the dialogue dead in its tracks."

Just to get this straight: For me that sounds as if the same problem would occur for every NPC that is searching for traps at the moment the dialogue fires, with or without "constant-search-for-trap-script". I get this impression, because you write, that the drop-out is the action that prevents the planned interjection. But I guess, this is not what you meant, am I right? Because otherwise it would make rather less sense to cancel a certain script, but you would advise me to search for traps only if absolutely necessarry. So I figure, you are probably telling me, that it is not the cancellation of the search-mode alone, but the ongoing script-command to enter search-mode again, that is causing the trouble? Or am I too simple-minded for this?

Another question: The AAI script gives you the possibility to adjust the script for your own needs, like to disable the constant-search-for-trap-mode. Would that solve the problem equally well?

To tell you the truth, the "STANDARD ATTACK"-script is a big dissapointment for me. But I guess I could take all the different scripts as well, that are provided by the game (well, except thief0 - tief4, of course, for the same reason, isn't it?). But shall I really micromanage my rogues into search-for-trap-mode myself all the time? A 100 times a day? Major-hassle! Is there no other way? Hate you!

O.k. - here is an idea (accompanie by a huge workload, I am afraid). Whenever a multiple-persons-dialogue is about to fire, your mod could check for rogues in search-for-trap-mode, and continue only after its cancellation. Nah... well... o.k., sounds rather horribly complicated. Can't have that, can we?

So - I checked for other solutions in the web. Are there any other mods with rogue-scripts that tackle the need for automatic search-for-trap-mode in a better, less lethal way? One of the most famous script-mods would be the BPSeries (download - http://www.shsforums.net/files/file/1025-b...party-ai-for-bg ; forum - http://www.shsforums.net/topic/55595-bp-se...e-bg2-and-bg2ee ). Got to tell you, I have no idea, what they do or if their way could be any better than the game-default-AAI-script. I guess, for most people / mods, there are no dialogues involving multiple persons and therefore no need for change arises.

After thinking and searching I unterstand the way you chose with your mod. *sigh* I appreciate your readme-entry though. Small proposition: Change the text of it slightly. As you can see above it still left a lot of questions for me.



edit: Small spelling-error


This post has been edited by Seewead: May 10 2017, 05:26 PM

[Seewead]

Pardon me for double-post, but here is an idea: Change the name of the thread accordingly (something about script-problems?). Seemingly I can't do that on my own.

Just an idea, Seewead

[nullset]

Since I have not played with the AAI scripts, I cannot say. If you can turn off the constant search for traps, try it and let me know if that fixes the problem. I'm just afraid that some other function might cause the same problem. What if a cleric decides in the middle of a dialogue that someone needs healing? I guess I like STANDARD ATTACK because the only thing scriptwise that the characters do on there own is fight. For all else, I have to play the dictator. We're going to play this game according to ME!

[Austin87]

Hello! tipun from the Arcanecoast Team wrote a small mod that will solve the problem described above! After installing it, if the AI is enabled at the start of the dialogue, it simply turns off for the duration of the dialogue. When finished, it turns on. If it was initially disabled, then it remains disabled.

Here's the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fj0926ma5mnrs2u/d...ogleAI.zip?dl=0

[nullset]

Hello! tipun from the Arcanecoast Team wrote a small mod that will solve the problem described above! After installing it, if the AI is enabled at the start of the dialogue, it simply turns off for the duration of the dialogue. When finished, it turns on. If it was initially disabled, then it remains disabled.

Here's the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fj0926ma5mnrs2u/d...ogleAI.zip?dl=0

Thanx, Austin87. Sounds like a plan!