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> Suggestions for the coming release
forthenature
post Jun 8 2021, 07:27 AM
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I’ve run through this game twice in the recent one and a half month. It is admirable that even I’ve played the mod so many times, it’s still attractive. I am very appreciate with the changes of the recent releases. I’m so glad that this mod is still under updating and I am quite looking forward for the next release. So here are my personal suggestions for it.
1.Relief the constraint on whether the protagonist is a necromancer.
The single factor that affects the difficulty and game experience of the mod most is whether the protagonist is a necromancer. I should admit that the adventure and item designed for necromancer is very fantastic and the battle with the Old Ones is one of my favourite. However, after so many tries I would like to start the game with other roles. Unfortunately, the game difficulty could be quite different, especially in the battle with the Great Wyrm. One way to do this is to make Memory of the Apprenti and Amulet of Hades available for all characters, or other wizard should have counter abilities against Greater Silence. As a trade off, necromancer should be nerfed. RVE is a bit too powerful for a necro that in late game you nearly need no other healing method.
2.Make cleric more powerful.
Just as I said, with RVE you nearly don’t need a healer in your party. And what makes things worse is that in the recent release druid over compete cleric from nearly all dimensions: stoneskin, new items and new kits, and more useful HLAs. So to maximize party fighting power, there is no room for a cleric. But cleric is one of my favourite role in the game(and also in other PRGs), so I would like it to be buffed in the next release. I think a single class cleric should be as the same attractive as Jaheira.
3.Make ranged weapons a choice.
Damage dealt by ranged weapons can be lower than melee weapons instead of no damage.
4.Make paladin more powerful.
Comparing to other warrior roles(ranger, barbarian, champion of arvoreen, risk breaker), paladin is far less attractive. It should be buffed a bit.
5.Nalia should be buffed
She should at least have access to the 9th level spells. And her first class and low wisdom make her not a good party member. But she is one of my favourite character.

These suggestions are ordered. And I do hope the first two to come true. I think they will be beneficial for further development of this mod.
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ed boy
post Oct 8 2022, 04:00 PM
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I think that various thief multis/duals have a place as UAI users. They have the downside of missing out on powerful kit abilities and caster level dependent stuff (eg dispel wars), but the upside of being able to enhance their non-thief class by using items meant for a third class. Fighter/thieves get the best of this, though there are other cases a mage being able to use the druidic circlet that improves casting speed. If we had stronger caster-specific equipment, then I could see mage/thief and cleric/thief having a place as "Someone who can cast spells from X class but use items from Y class to bolster their abilities". I can't see a way to make pure thieves viable, unless we give them more strong HLAs or give them a new kit that fixes the APR problem.

Thieves and Bards have similar problems where the gap between them and a fighter in damage output is too large. They both have terrible THAC0 progression, lagging behind the cleric and beating only the mage. They both have terrible APR, with bards and non-swashbuckler thieves the joint worst APR in the game (no APR for level progression, limited to a single proficiency point in weapons so no APR from proficiency, offensive spin and haste are not compatible), and swashbucklers barely above that (an extra 0.5 APR from specialisation). Their damage per hit is also terrible, with bards and non-swashbucklers gaining no benefit from proficiency and swashbucklers getting their on-hit bonus rarely and unreliably. They classically have the ability to perform fewer big hits (eg backstabs), but IA enemies are resistant to those, and the way damage resistances and rounding works means that fewer big attacks don't have the impact of

If we want to balance them, we need to give them additional APR to put them in the middle between casters and warriors, and also create stronger class-specific items so UAI duals/multis can boost their non-thief class. Some ideas:
  • Items with restricted class that a Thief/Caster will want (eg druid specific item with a casting speed bonus, cleric specific item with silence immunity)
  • Additional powerful HLAs for a single class thief (to give a reason to play thief without another class)
  • THAC0 changes - for reference, warrior tops out at 0, cleric at 6 and mage at 8
    • Thieves to top out at 4 instead of 7
    • Bards to top out at 2 instead of 7
  • APR changes - for reference, warrior tops out at 3 (1 base, +1 from levels, +1 from proficiency), cleric and mage at 1
    • Thieves to be able to specialize (top out at 1.5)
    • Bards able to specialize and gain an additional 0.5APR at level 10 (top out at 2)
    • Swashbucklers able to GM (top out at 2)
  • Thief/bard specific items that enhance combat
    • Equipment for thieves/bards to improve THAC0 (like the Melodic Fury ring from the old The Four mod)
    • Equipment for thieves/bards to increase APR (+0.5 if it consumes a minor equipment slot, +1 if it consumes a major equipment slot)

I'm not sure how I feel about swashbuckler - It should definitely be stronger than both thieves and bards in combat, but I feel like it should lag slightly behind a pure warrior. Monk is a class that I have no idea how it can be brought up to par with the others.
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forthenature   Suggestions for the coming release   Jun 8 2021, 07:27 AM
pekkae   Completely agree on the Cleric. A pure cleric does...   Jun 8 2021, 08:08 AM
critto   All of these are good suggestions and have been ta...   Jun 8 2021, 06:45 PM
forthenature   Nalia's intelligence is 17 so she cannot memor...   Jun 9 2021, 02:23 AM
critto   I don't remember this being an issue in the pa...   Jun 9 2021, 05:33 AM
pekkae   I don't remember this being an issue in the pa...   Jun 9 2021, 06:30 AM
forthenature   I'm not sure. In original game, Nalia's in...   Jun 9 2021, 06:14 AM
critto   I wonder why I don't remember this. I've h...   Jun 9 2021, 08:47 AM
lroumen   It might be an EE thing. I do not recall this bein...   Jun 9 2021, 04:58 PM
bulian   @OP - you may want to check out IATweaks, which of...   Jun 10 2021, 02:24 AM
SparrowJacek   As bulian mentioned - it's already an optional...   Jun 12 2021, 11:47 AM
pekkae   After trudging along with a cleric for some time, ...   Jan 11 2022, 08:59 PM
SparrowJacek   Thank you for your suggestions pekkae! I'v...   May 18 2022, 04:37 PM
pekkae   Thank you for your suggestions pekkae! I'v...   May 19 2022, 06:03 AM
bulian   Feel free to suggest stats and crafting components...   May 21 2022, 06:28 PM
pekkae   Here's a few ideas. The areas where the mod is...   May 26 2022, 06:47 AM
Ralmevic   I think you can already forge Flail of the Ages +4...   May 26 2022, 10:08 AM
pekkae   I think you can already forge Flail of the Ages +4...   May 26 2022, 10:17 AM
pekkae   I've been tinkering with a cleric for a little...   Oct 1 2022, 10:07 AM
ed boy   I feel that a major problem with clerics is that t...   Oct 2 2022, 11:33 PM
pekkae   I feel that a major problem with clerics is that t...   Oct 3 2022, 04:56 PM
lappen   really good ideas i think :)   Oct 3 2022, 02:15 PM
lappen   perhaps clerics would be better healer if their he...   Oct 3 2022, 06:54 PM
lroumen   Sanctuary is 10 rounds of uncontested summoning an...   Oct 3 2022, 09:57 PM
SparrowJacek   I love how there are so many new ideas for rebalan...   Oct 4 2022, 06:08 PM
pekkae   I love how there are so many new ideas for rebalan...   Oct 6 2022, 06:57 PM
lappen   I love how there are so many new ideas for rebalan...   Oct 7 2022, 07:09 PM
ed boy   Cleric class is the one that requires the most reb...   Oct 7 2022, 08:26 PM
lroumen   Quite some classes in anvil got the short end of t...   Oct 7 2022, 11:40 PM
ed boy   I think that various thief multis/duals have a pla...   Oct 8 2022, 04:00 PM
SparrowJacek   At the moment that's true for all except for S...   Oct 9 2022, 06:18 PM
SparrowJacek   That's a viable point, we will need to keep th...   Oct 9 2022, 06:51 PM
lroumen   Art apr. You can give kits the ability to follow ...   Oct 9 2022, 11:16 PM
SparrowJacek   Here's a very little teaser of the changes tha...   Oct 10 2022, 01:12 PM
pekkae   There's really good ideas here in this thread....   Oct 10 2022, 01:35 PM
lroumen   Do you also have the shaman changes in the release...   Oct 10 2022, 04:56 PM
SparrowJacek   We won't be tackling other protagonists than D...   Oct 10 2022, 05:26 PM
lroumen   Shaman is in. That's a sure playthrough from m...   Oct 10 2022, 09:21 PM
SparrowJacek   Okay, time for the second teaser of the changes:   Oct 11 2022, 08:24 AM
lappen   i want to see the next version :DD pllzzz :D   Oct 11 2022, 09:18 PM
SparrowJacek   i want to see the next version :DD pllzzz :D Since...   Oct 12 2022, 09:14 AM
SparrowJacek   Do you guys have any ideas, how to make Cleric kit...   Oct 12 2022, 10:04 PM
pekkae   Do you guys have any ideas, how to make Cleric kit...   Oct 13 2022, 05:58 AM
lroumen   I never gave that a thought because kits are bette...   Oct 13 2022, 04:46 AM
SparrowJacek   I am not sure, but I think that people still playi...   Oct 13 2022, 01:15 PM
pekkae   Yep they do. But you have to change the variable. ...   Oct 13 2022, 05:37 PM
SparrowJacek   I consider Avengers to be balanced, but Clan Spiri...   Oct 13 2022, 07:36 PM
pekkae   when i use shadow keeper, u can add some special...   Oct 14 2022, 05:09 PM
lappen   when i use shadow keeper, u can add some special...   Oct 13 2022, 09:27 PM
SparrowJacek   There is such thing. Unfortunately there is no way...   Oct 14 2022, 06:06 PM
pekkae   Well. Giving NPC's abilities unattainable by P...   Oct 15 2022, 11:42 AM
lroumen   Viconia worships Shar, not Lolth though. I would ...   Oct 15 2022, 02:27 PM
pekkae   Viconia worships Shar, not Lolth though. I would ...   Oct 16 2022, 04:39 PM
pekkae   (double-post removed)   Oct 16 2022, 04:47 PM
lroumen   I do not know how easy it is to modify existing sp...   Oct 16 2022, 05:09 PM
SparrowJacek   Thank you for more ideas! I finally got a goo...   Oct 16 2022, 06:05 PM
pekkae   I get new ideas almost every day, I hope I will ha...   Oct 17 2022, 05:15 PM
SparrowJacek   Double post, strange...   Oct 16 2022, 06:05 PM
SparrowJacek   PoL is a very nice melee fighter. Blessed bracers...   Oct 17 2022, 10:10 PM
pekkae   I don't know about names that much, as I'm...   Oct 18 2022, 04:09 PM
SparrowJacek   Thank you, I will use at least one of those names ...   Oct 20 2022, 07:06 PM
pekkae   Thank you, I will use at least one of those names ...   Oct 23 2022, 05:46 PM
SparrowJacek   I created a way of implementing some things much f...   Oct 23 2022, 06:22 PM
pekkae   EDIT: Some new spell icons are already done :) htt...   Oct 24 2022, 06:04 PM
lroumen   You only get new abilities at level up for the nex...   Oct 24 2022, 06:00 AM
SparrowJacek   I know it can be done that way, however having lic...   Oct 24 2022, 06:41 PM
pekkae   Well, on the one hand, I'd love to share all t...   Nov 6 2022, 08:11 AM
lappen   hey guys, is there a chance that u can implement t...   Nov 1 2022, 09:18 AM
pekkae   hey guys, is there a chance that u can implement t...   Nov 6 2022, 08:06 AM
SparrowJacek   I am not familiar with The Four mod and I am not s...   Nov 2 2022, 08:56 AM
lroumen   https://sorcerers.net/community/threads/the...e-4#...   Nov 2 2022, 12:42 PM
lroumen   I thought the four was already included in IA, alt...   Nov 6 2022, 10:56 AM
pekkae   I thought the four was already included in IA, alt...   Nov 6 2022, 10:58 AM
SparrowJacek   Well, it's a 5th level AoE spell with very fas...   Nov 6 2022, 10:32 PM
pekkae   Now it looks quite usable! Great! The arca...   Nov 7 2022, 02:33 PM
SparrowJacek   Clerics won't have Iron Skins, but they will h...   Nov 9 2022, 01:04 PM
lroumen   That looks awesome and sounds very useful. I think...   Nov 9 2022, 05:39 PM
SparrowJacek   Okay, time to present another ability, that should...   Nov 13 2022, 10:21 PM
lroumen   I thought that if you just finished a spell or can...   Nov 14 2022, 06:55 PM
SparrowJacek   No, you don't need to do that. This ability ca...   Nov 14 2022, 07:26 PM
pekkae   No, you don't need to do that. This ability ca...   Nov 15 2022, 10:16 AM
lroumen   That opens up possibilities   Nov 14 2022, 11:31 PM
SparrowJacek   I hope there will be many creative uses of this sk...   Nov 16 2022, 03:37 PM
pekkae   I hope there will be many creative uses of this sk...   Nov 19 2022, 10:38 AM
SparrowJacek   I want to release this new version soon (in the up...   Nov 21 2022, 09:17 PM
kilorew   Been itching for another Improved Anvil run, still...   Nov 22 2022, 04:04 PM
lroumen   I have been playing a shaman in bg1 to import to b...   Nov 23 2022, 06:28 AM
ed boy   I'm very impressed with all the new cleric spe...   Nov 23 2022, 02:19 PM
SparrowJacek   That was my intention, so I'm glad that I mana...   Nov 23 2022, 02:52 PM
SparrowJacek   I have a question to you guys: did you ever use Su...   Nov 23 2022, 07:57 PM
pekkae   I have a question to you guys: did you ever use Su...   Nov 23 2022, 09:10 PM
SparrowJacek   Okay then, here are 2 more rebalanced spells apart...   Nov 23 2022, 09:36 PM
kilorew   Is there a rough date in mind on when this new upd...   Nov 24 2022, 07:28 AM
SparrowJacek   It's hard to say, as there are still many thin...   Nov 24 2022, 08:27 PM
pekkae   Finally a defensive hamony worth casting! So...   Nov 25 2022, 01:45 PM
ed boy   Defensive Harmony So am I understanding this corre...   Nov 25 2022, 09:00 PM
SparrowJacek   Yes, that's right. However you need to keep a...   Nov 25 2022, 02:03 PM
pekkae   Yes, that's right. However you need to keep a...   Nov 25 2022, 05:25 PM
SparrowJacek   Yes, each of the allies gets this bonus for 6 seco...   Nov 25 2022, 09:16 PM
SparrowJacek   Good news. I had much more time than usual to work...   Nov 25 2022, 09:26 PM
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