Party of lesser-used classes and kits Options

[blastermaster]

I've enjoyed the interesting aspects of this mod relative to vanilla BG2 and other difficulty mods. After a few run-throughs though, using a standard or semi-standard party isn't too much of a challenge. With this mod, a low-level challenge, no-reload challenge, and/or poverty challenge are all out of the question. So the only other challenges I can think of are a "no arcane magic challenge" (which frankly I think is quite do-able thanks to Iron Skins and Greater Restoration and Auramasters), or perhaps a party entirely composed of the types of classes and kits that people tend not to use (at least from what I can see in the journals here).

Some classes I am considering:

Archer
The major issue here is that so many monsters have extra resistance to missiles, relative to other damage types (or outright immunity). So this leaves you with essentially the Bow of Gesen's flat 2 piercing damage, or using Arrows of Piercing whenever you have some. Also, I think Tuigan isn't available until somewhere in Watcher's Keep (unless it's randomized?), which hurts the archer in the early game. The lack of Strength bonus to damage, and the Dexterity bonus to Thac0 actually not scaling like it does with Strength (and, to add insult to injury, it is of course much harder to raise Dexterity in this game as compared to Strength). Called Shot is intriguing, but there are only a few encounters in which you're facing just one enemy hitting you, so the Thac0 penalty from it would just impact one of them. Unfortunately the STR loss per hit is too short-lasting to be relied upon to kill something by getting them down to 0 STR, though perhaps in multiples this is more readily achievable?

Wild Mage
Potentially using high-level spells early in the game is nice, but a Wild Surge on 1 out of 20 spells means you're likely to really get hurt by this in perhaps the majority of battles. I suppose you could reload until at least your pre-buffing goes correctly, and then take fights from there, but that's no fun.

Blade
Can't cast the all-important level 7 Ruby Ray spell, so he's stuck using scrolls for this. Same with Limited Wish for undead protection. No Alacrity, meaning you're just getting one spell per turn out of him. Use Any Item is still pretty nice and you could make quite a tank out of a Blade, but the offensive capability is really lacking. And without the classical fast leveling of a bard, or the usefulness of the HLA traps, it seems like a Figher/Mage multi is almost entirely dominant over this class.

Inquisitor
No higher than Specialization really hurts, especially if you're using two-handed weapons - he will max out at 5 attacks under Improved Haste. Would be a nice tweak if paladins could get grandmastery in 2H swords, given it's their signature weapon style and it is so important in games in which the un-nerfed grandmastery is used.

Swashbuckler
The weapon and armor for this class are underwhelming and very expensive. Lack of Use Any Item hurts a ton, and the HLA of Acrobatic Combat is extremely underwhelming. Still, the possibility for a very low AC could make him a good tank, but why not use a Ranger Cleric for this purpose and get more offensive output and more defensive capabilities?

Thief dualed to a Cleric
Level a thief to 23 to get Use Any Item, then dual him to a Cleric. I believe he can then get 105% physical resistance (40% hardiness from Wish, 25% from Jan's armor, 10% from Defender of Easthaven or Warblade upgrade, 5% from Master of Disciplines, 10% from Armor of Faith, 15% from Scarlet Ioun Stone if PC is a necro). And he could use Scarlet Ninja-to in offhand to get 6 attacks under Improved Haste, and cast spells from scrolls. Not great, but pretty useful. Alternatively, I think you could take a Cleric and dual immediately to thief. Armor of Faith gives you the 10% resistance right from level 1, and likewise the 15 round duration. You lose out on higher-level cleric spells, but it would be an interesting character for sure. Without the Scarlet Ioun Stone, he loses a lot of appeal as a tank, and I think would be forced to aim for low AC route for damage prevention.

Viconia
The 65% magic resistance is very tempting, especially with the Human Flesh armor being available pretty early. But from a weapons perspective, she's just no help in combat with a poor Thac0 and limited weapon selection that maxes out at 4 APR. Still, Greater Restoration is pretty awesome.

Monk
A better Viconia in some ways, ending up with more magic resist in the mid to late game. But maxing out at 5 attacks per round is still a bummer here, not to mention the inability to really do piercing or slashing damage. I am also curious why their Thac0 doesn't get better than 5. If I remember correctly, they used the fighter Thac0 progression in vanilla.

Wizardslayer
Again, intriguing for the magic resist. It appears they use the 1% per level growth up until level 20 or so (as defined by the manual, though in the actual original ToB game it was 2% per level until level 20). At least, unlike every other character here, they can attain the all important grandmastery. But lack of magic rings and cloaks is going to make for some terrible saves when spells do sneak through. There's basically severe penalties to this class throughout the entire first half of the game; 20% magic resist at level 20 means you're still going to get chunked 80% of the time when you fail your saves.

Beastmaster
Clubs and Quarterstaves are pretty good in this mod, so the weapon restrictions aren't as bad as they'd be in a typical BG2 difficulty mod. And the extra HP from Find Familiar would be pretty nice. Relative to most of the above kits, this actually wouldn't be too bad. But it feels a lot like a subpar ranger, rather than an entirely new kit or class decision.

Any cool strategy ideas for the characters above that I am missing? Curious to hear people's thoughts.

This post has been edited by blastermaster: Apr 7 2015, 12:34 PM

[blastermaster]

Yes, I am treating my character as a Necro protagonist, so I do have the Amulet of Hades. Without it, I would stand no chance.

That's an interesting idea, to leave the Skeleton Warlords alive, though the problem is that you have to be very perfect with Protection from Magic Weapons or the Skeleton Warlords will kill you almost immediately if it lapses. At least if you kill them, you only have Firkraag hitting you for some time, so you can rely on Stoneskin for a bit.

Firkraag casts Lower Fire Resistance and then Improved Fireball 2 seconds later, un-interruptible. The first time it's not so bad, I go from 100 Fire Resist down to maybe 50, but then he does it again and again.

The real problem though is Greater Doom. It lowers everything (Thac0, Saves) by -6, and it lasts 100 rounds, and it stacks. And it looks like Firkraag does it until your saves are 8 or worse. When this happens, I cannot hit Firkraag or the Skeletons (apart from Critical Strike). So interestingly, there is no reason to wear things like Ring of Protection. In fact, they just make him cast it more, ruining my Thac0. So I think the solution is to not wear them at all so he only casts Greater Doom once or twice.

I will probably return to this battle when I reach the level cap and have the maximum number of Critical Strikes available. Maybe even post-Spellhold when I may have some other equipment available too. With the right rings, I can better manage my saves to reach precisely the point where he stops Dooming me. I forget where the Ring of Fire Resistance is, but that would also be a huge help, to be able to put off and on during the battle. Likewise with the shields and helmet that grant fire resistance.

[Krell]

Troll Mound: easy. Pretty much anything that can be tackled pre-Spellhold is proving to be not too difficult for this character.

Chaos (Druid Stronghold) is proving to be very difficult. He casts Killer Insects every 60 seconds, which negates spellcasting for... 60 seconds (not to mention the damage). Spell Immunity doesn't seem to block it, nor is there any save. I don't think I can disrupt the casting. I may try to summon a Planetar and see if that can get Chaos to try to cast on it while I get out of the area of effect. 60 seconds should give me enough time to unload my spellbook on Chaos, and if that's not enough, so be it. Joolon isn't really that useful anyways.

Expanded Mage Stronghold has been easy until "Why is it so cold in here?". That is looking very difficult. Without Foreknowledge, my Ray of Fragmentations are taking a long time to cast (I do have -3 casting speed from Vecna's upgrade and Amulet of Power's upgrade). I can get the Ice Golem down to around 85/200 via these spells, but finishing the job is very difficult. Especially because the Slow applications keep making my character stop attacking and his Attacks per round are poor under this effect. Might need to max out levels and come back to this one.

Killer Insects are negated by an Oil of Resurgence. Don't ask how or why. You still won't be able to cast any spells though, but you can bypass that via scrolls (PFMW) or Contingencies (Improved Haste or PFMW). You could also use Elite trolls summoned by Monster Summoning VI, those help.

I can't remember my own Berserker-Mage solo run of the Ice challenge, but I think I used a lot of Elite Trolls there as well.

Firkraag casts Lower Fire Resistance and then Improved Fireball 2 seconds later, un-interruptible. The first time it's not so bad, I go from 100 Fire Resist down to maybe 50, but then he does it again and again.

If you were playing on Insane rather than Core, the first time would've been lethal.

The real problem though is Greater Doom. It lowers everything (Thac0, Saves) by -6, and it lasts 100 rounds, and it stacks. And it looks like Firkraag does it until your saves are 8 or worse. When this happens, I cannot hit Firkraag or the Skeletons (apart from Critical Strike). So interestingly, there is no reason to wear things like Ring of Protection. In fact, they just make him cast it more, ruining my Thac0. So I think the solution is to not wear them at all so he only casts Greater Doom once or twice.

Greater Doom stacks with itself, and can be targeted on a character under Improved Invisibility.

I will probably return to this battle when I reach the level cap and have the maximum number of Critical Strikes available. Maybe even post-Spellhold when I may have some other equipment available too. With the right rings, I can better manage my saves to reach precisely the point where he stops Dooming me. I forget where the Ring of Fire Resistance is, but that would also be a huge help, to be able to put off and on during the battle. Likewise with the shields and helmet that grant fire resistance.

I doubt anything will help you in this fight. And I doubt you will be able to pull it, despite all of the modifications. I think this is the breaking point of the challenge. Switching on and off fire res gear seems good, but vs greater doom stacking there is no cure. Plus, you can be buffeted unconscious and then fried via Improved Fireball of Red Dragon Breath, in which case you won't be able to react in any way.