Powerful mage and game rules, [Topic spllit by Baronius] Options

[Baronius]

I understand what he's saying. I was surprised by it too, the first time I fought him. You're expecting a powerful mage, not a physical powerhouse, and yet none of your fighters can deal any serious damage.

I have never understood this type of approach. Why can't a powerful mage have very powerful "physical" resistances via her powerful magic and knowledge? Should every wizard be protected by 9 golems so no one can reach her? Because without resistances, wizards could be killed very easily, considering their low natural hit points and physical defense.

[Baronius]

Exactly. I never understand it when modders (not just Daulmakan) come with this "rules" thing. It reminds me to the G3 "fixpack" creators who believe that the BG2 TorGal is buggy because it has no immunity to normal death (i.e. only killable by fire or acid) -- very narrow-minded. (For example, TorGal might have sacrificed it in the past for another ability or more strength etc.) Imagination, modders, imagination!

Because it doesn't make sense with the given ruleset of both 2E and the game itself.

High level wizards are among the most powerful creatures in the Realms. Being physically weaker than the other classes is supposed to be what balances their offensive prowess. I don't see any reason why the should have innate or out-of-the-box resistances. If they did, I don't see a reason why fighters shouldn't cast spells either, and so on.

You list artificial reasons, based on certain assumptions about world constraints and rules. I have emphasized it earlier that first of all, an IE mod should be consistent with itself, with the world it is integrated to (the weaker version of this principle has a different second part: with the world it presents to the game). My Grey Clan mod is a good example (I absolutely don't care what D&D or anything else would dictate, I think creativity and consistence are the keys for a good mod).

I agree that in "classic" medieval/mythic worlds, with simpler rules, the picture of a wizard presented by Ardanis is more desirable. However, BG2 introduced so many things (and the D&D rules are also complex already) that it can't be called a "classic" world game in my own dictionary. For example, Mind Flayers (which are from D&D too I suppose) remind me to some aliens in a sci-fi rather than creatures in a classic mythic world I imagine. (This is one of the points where I liked BG1 better: easier spell system, more "classic" creatures, etc. Of course, it meant less possibilities, combinations as well for tactics and such things). One could say now that then D&D is not for me; in the aforementioned respect, indeed it isn't (but there are other aspects where I like it, even though I don't know it in details).

[Daulmakan]

You list artificial reasons, based on certain assumptions about world constraints and rules. I have emphasized it earlier that first of all, an IE mod should be consistent with itself, with the world it is integrated to (the weaker version of this principle has a different second part: with the world it presents to the game). My Grey Clan mod is a good example (I absolutely don't care what D&D or anything else would dictate, I think creativity and consistence are the keys for a good mod).

Well, we are indeed playing a game based on a world with constraints and rules. Personal changes and in-house rules are allowed and sometimes even encouraged within the P&P game, but the point is, there are always rules. I know about Grey Clan, it threw me off the first time I played it, but I liked the overall experience anyway, so I keep installing it in my Tutu games (and finish the second part already! ).

I'm not implying Ustrain himself to be necessarily 'wrong' or anything of the like, I'm just saying why it is uncommon and why someone might be surprised at him.

On a more particular note, both 2E and BG2 do provide mages with the means to attain physical resistance, both in the way of items and spells (stoneskin, protection from X weapons, mantle, etc.). It's just that it does it in a more 'balanced' way, so to speak, in the sense that is analogue to the rest of the gaming world as it's presented.