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> "Philosophical" questions, What is a cheesy method? Bug or feature?
Vuki
post Aug 11 2008, 08:33 PM
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Posts: 663
Joined: 9-June 08
From: Budapest, Hungary




I created this topic to discuss the "philosophical" aspect of the game. We can discuss here questions like:

- is a modification really needed or not?
- is something cheesy or cheeting or just a clever trick?
- game balance
- is an actual gap a bug or a feature?
- and so on ...

This topic will be maybe a bit too theoretical but I do not think it is a problem. We need such a place - as the discussions from the last 2-3 weeks prove it. smile.gif

This post has been edited by Vuki: Aug 11 2008, 08:34 PM


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Shadan
post Jan 26 2009, 01:28 PM
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From: Budapest - Hungary




I dont't think Time Stop+melee is a cheat, so I agree with Zarathustra. I have never used this in IA anyway for several reasons:
1. I have only F/I in my 4.2 run, and he got TS too late. Single class mages cannot attack efficiently and I didn't plyed multi or dual class mages in my v5 runs.
2. When I had TS with good melee character, most important enemies were immune to TS so it was pointless to use it against them.

I don't think as a cheat, but I agree with this change since it is good for classbalance imho. F>M and F/M become less powerful. However with this change maybe you should delete TS immunity from more enemies. I tried TS several times and I found too many enemies were immune to TS in v5, so I stopped to try and use it. It would be welcome if I could use TS with my mages more times effeciently, IF I cast spells only during the TS.
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Vuki   "Philosophical" questions   Aug 11 2008, 08:33 PM
Baronius   Let's stir the pot then... (just kidding :D )...   Aug 11 2008, 09:25 PM
Vuki   Baronius, I have read your post and it was really ...   Aug 11 2008, 11:07 PM
Vuki   Baronius, please wait to my real first post! I...   Aug 11 2008, 09:49 PM
Baronius   Oh, forgive me! It seems I was too quick, I ha...   Aug 11 2008, 09:55 PM
Vuki   No problem. I thought I would be faster. :D   Aug 11 2008, 10:19 PM
Vuki   First of all I would like to point out that I like...   Aug 11 2008, 10:31 PM
Kerkes   Very nice topic! Bravo! IMO =not the aps...   Aug 12 2008, 08:51 AM
Sikret   casting spells from off-screen - pure cheese. I wr...   Aug 12 2008, 09:19 AM
Vuki   Very true. This answer is valid for the case of ab...   Aug 12 2008, 11:10 AM
Vuki   Very nice topic! Bravo! Thanks. :) No, I ...   Aug 12 2008, 11:04 AM
Sikret   For example enemies can reduce your fire resistanc...   Aug 12 2008, 11:17 AM
Vuki   No humanoid enemy has such an ability. Actually, o...   Aug 12 2008, 11:41 AM
Sikret   No humanoid enemy has such an ability. Actually, o...   Aug 12 2008, 12:03 PM
Vuki   They don't do any such thing. It's an invi...   Aug 12 2008, 12:14 PM
Sikret   They don't do any such thing. It's an invi...   Aug 12 2008, 12:45 PM
Vuki   This is not true (except for vert particular monst...   Aug 12 2008, 11:49 AM
DavidW   Why the hell would it be not fair? This is a fair ...   Aug 12 2008, 11:41 AM
Vuki   It's basically a game-engine issue. The script...   Aug 12 2008, 11:53 AM
lroumen   I'll join in for some musing. I've read ...   Aug 12 2008, 09:26 AM
Vuki   Pt 2. Don't use game editors I use it sometime...   Aug 12 2008, 11:25 AM
Kerkes   A dwarven sorc has +5 to saves unlike human, elf ...   Aug 12 2008, 10:45 PM
Sikret   Don't you consider Time trap to be an "am...   Aug 13 2008, 09:14 AM
lroumen   Can this be added to the debate? Cheesy foes...   Aug 12 2008, 09:59 AM
Raven   Prebuffing foes (Forcespell) I don't fully fav...   Aug 12 2008, 10:27 AM
Sikret   Prebuffing foes (Forcespell) I don't fully fav...   Aug 12 2008, 10:59 AM
Vuki   Cheesy foes! Prebuffing foes (Forcespell) I d...   Aug 12 2008, 11:29 AM
Giden   Hi guys, I'm quite new to the boards but not n...   Aug 12 2008, 11:24 AM
Vuki   It is the previously promised post. I wanted to wr...   Aug 12 2008, 01:25 PM
Kerkes   @Vuki I REALLY am looking forward to your post on...   Aug 12 2008, 05:26 PM
Vuki   @Vuki I REALLY am looking forward to your post on...   Aug 12 2008, 07:36 PM
Kerkes   one other thing.. It is stated in IA readme that ...   Aug 12 2008, 06:02 PM
Raven   one other thing.. It is stated in IA readme that ...   Aug 12 2008, 07:38 PM
Sikret   [quote name='Kerkes' post='34482' date='Aug 12 200...   Aug 22 2008, 01:39 PM
Vuki   one other thing.. It is stated in IA readme that ...   Aug 12 2008, 07:43 PM
Raven   I do not know what you are talking about here. Can...   Aug 12 2008, 07:51 PM
Vuki   Small spoilers for this battle... Ok, I noticed it...   Aug 12 2008, 08:10 PM
Sikret   The thief "detect illusion" ability is a...   Aug 12 2008, 08:01 PM
Vuki   If the ability was a plain divination spell, we wo...   Aug 12 2008, 08:19 PM
Kerkes   @ Vuki well, I suppose Raven knows what I was aim...   Aug 12 2008, 08:42 PM
Kerkes   @Vuki just read your reply on ambushes and such H...   Aug 12 2008, 08:51 PM
Sikret   Enemies can set an ambush, because the arena is th...   Aug 12 2008, 09:11 PM
lroumen   lroumen, how much of the mod have you actually pla...   Aug 13 2008, 09:23 AM
Sikret   2. Stealing from shops (though of course selling i...   Aug 13 2008, 09:41 AM
Vuki   You cannot implement this because each character h...   Aug 13 2008, 10:51 AM
LZJ   Hi Iroumen! For your point on stealing quest ...   Aug 13 2008, 09:37 AM
lroumen   That's true. You have to put in a lot of effor...   Aug 13 2008, 09:50 AM
lroumen   Concerning area abuse. I'd like to hear more...   Aug 13 2008, 10:03 AM
Sikret   IA will never be "perfect" in the strict...   Aug 13 2008, 11:50 AM
Vuki   IA is progressing and becoming better and better w...   Aug 13 2008, 04:54 PM
Kerkes   @ Sikret I was referring to the fact that you...   Aug 13 2008, 11:59 AM
coaster   On the discussion re: time traps. Perhaps time tr...   Aug 14 2008, 10:07 AM
Kerkes   IMO, mages should be more powerful than any other ...   Aug 14 2008, 10:28 AM
SpellStorm   I've played this mod for some time now, and I ...   Aug 14 2008, 01:40 PM
Kerkes   I agree with that "wasted time on cheating...   Aug 22 2008, 02:53 PM
Kerkes   On the discussion about abusing area structure: I ...   Aug 26 2008, 07:59 PM
Vuki   As far as I know liches are immune to 1-5 level sp...   Sep 4 2008, 08:06 AM
LZJ   Hmmm... I don't know if it's the same as i...   Sep 6 2008, 10:23 AM
Sikret   Item no.10 in the "cheat and cheap" docu...   Jan 23 2009, 07:43 PM
matti   It's not a cheat at all. But giving creature r...   Jan 23 2009, 07:50 PM
Raven   It's not a cheat at all. But giving creature r...   Jan 26 2009, 10:34 AM
nataben1314   This is distressing indeed... I think that by the ...   Jan 23 2009, 10:42 PM
Sikret   Let me quote from my own post again: I think th...   Jan 23 2009, 11:11 PM
Baronius   This is distressing indeed... I think that by the ...   Jan 24 2009, 12:23 AM
Sikret   Their reasoning is usually the following: (1) ...   Jan 24 2009, 12:58 AM
nataben1314   nataben1314, thanks for keeping your criticism wit...   Jan 24 2009, 06:30 AM
Sikret   the idea that any ability that can even in princip...   Jan 24 2009, 02:02 PM
Baronius   It is interesting that when you justify your decis...   Jan 24 2009, 01:10 AM
Hoppy   Improved Anvil requires a lot of patience and time...   Jan 24 2009, 03:27 AM
Baronius   nataben1314: let's forget the past then, now y...   Jan 24 2009, 05:09 PM
lroumen   My condolences to all cheaters and cheesy players...   Jan 26 2009, 10:19 AM
DavidW   I've no idea whether the timestop trick counts...   Jan 26 2009, 11:58 AM
shadan   I dont't think Time Stop+melee is a cheat, so ...   Jan 26 2009, 01:28 PM
Shaitan   Yes I gotta agree with Sikret and others: TS reall...   Jan 26 2009, 01:29 PM
Sikret   My reasons for calling timestop-melee "a chea...   Jan 26 2009, 02:58 PM
Ardanis   Hi all. I believe TS differs from one edition to ...   Jan 26 2009, 07:39 PM
Daulmakan   BG2 spells are based on AD&D 2E... I'd s...   Jan 27 2009, 03:47 AM
Baronius   :) Considering the arguments against it, it is not...   Jan 27 2009, 04:02 AM
Sikret   Yeah, I'd say that the "act freely" ...   Jan 27 2009, 04:44 AM
nataben1314   I talk to sikret in PM and he says I am OK to stil...   Jan 27 2009, 03:36 PM
Zarathustra   IT just occurred to me that using missile weapons ...   Jan 27 2009, 06:24 PM
Sikret   Yes, Zarathustra! Once the timestop's dura...   Jan 27 2009, 07:05 PM
nataben1314   As you know I am against this change but I am curi...   Jan 28 2009, 12:05 AM
Sikret   As you know I am against this change but I am curi...   Jan 28 2009, 12:40 AM
nataben1314   The spell description says that you cannot even ta...   Jan 28 2009, 12:50 AM
Sikret   As I said, I don't think that spellcasting dur...   Jan 28 2009, 12:58 AM
nataben1314   I have read your posts, but I don't think they...   Jan 28 2009, 01:07 AM
Sikret   Yes, I haven't based my reasoning merely on th...   Jan 28 2009, 01:21 AM
nataben1314   So if your reasoning for this is conceptual, yet y...   Jan 28 2009, 03:15 PM
LZJ   Well, I think that Sikret's concept of Timesto...   Jan 28 2009, 03:31 PM
Sikret   Thanks, LZJ! @nataben1314 It seems that you ...   Jan 28 2009, 05:28 PM
Mohina   I think this is becoming a bit of a play on words,...   Jan 28 2009, 05:30 PM
Gorwath   I don't know if this could be implemented in t...   Jan 28 2009, 10:41 PM
Sikret   I don't know if this could be implemented in t...   Jan 28 2009, 10:58 PM
crunk   There's one thing that I do a lot, and I was w...   Feb 8 2009, 06:10 AM
Sikret   Yes, I'm afraid, "hit&run" (or r...   Feb 8 2009, 06:37 AM
crunk   Ok I'll stop running around just to waste mele...   Feb 11 2009, 09:36 PM
Sikret   Also, is it cheesy to cast SI:abj just to waste an...   Feb 11 2009, 10:13 PM
Kerkes   @ Crunk You're right about use of SI. From my...   Feb 11 2009, 10:04 PM
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