"Philosophical" questions, What is a cheesy method? Bug or feature? Options

[Vuki]

I created this topic to discuss the "philosophical" aspect of the game. We can discuss here questions like:

- is a modification really needed or not?
- is something cheesy or cheeting or just a clever trick?
- game balance
- is an actual gap a bug or a feature?
- and so on ...

This topic will be maybe a bit too theoretical but I do not think it is a problem. We need such a place - as the discussions from the last 2-3 weeks prove it.

This post has been edited by Vuki: Aug 11 2008, 08:34 PM

[Hoppy]

Improved Anvil requires a lot of patience and time as Sikret forewarns in the Readme of IA ever since the beginning version, I would assume. Some players may get disturbed at the increased amount of time to complete the game compared to the regular ToB game. For me, if I get overly frustrated at a video game, I don't play it for a week or more, or even quit playing it all together. That is too much time to be consumed (for me) and then I don't get the satisfaction of:

(1) We learnt from something, we improved ourselves; from something which we would not have done if we hadn't been forced to do it.
(2) The feeling of success after hard work, after a challenge.

what Baronius wrote and I have seen Sikret justify the same concept although maybe not the exact same words.

Although the above points are very true, they do not necessarily apply to everyone that plays this game/mod or any other game for that matter. Some players play BGII (or video game of choice) for relaxing benefits and or "cool downs" just like other hobbies. They may get too angry at IA and then have negative opinions towards Sikret or IA. We're only human and sometimes we misjudge out of frustration or anger.

IA has fantastic and brilliant scripting with mages where there is no slowdown in spell triggers or contingencies. Even with all of the classes for that matter. The attitudes of the enemies really make sense like thieves will not try to backstab a Barbarian over and over like in the original game. That kind of thing and other similar scripting actions bring IA to the realm of "making sense" in any form of combat.

IA has a very "fast thinking" playing style and may not be satisfying to some looking for a more relaxed game atmosphere. It just takes too much patience for me and it is not for my casual game playing. Maybe I speak for others of the same mindset...I don't know

[Baronius]

nataben1314: let's forget the past then, now you use this account and it's fine. As opposed to the misbelief spread by certain internet users, BWL doesn't sanction anyone just because the user has a different opinion than the BWL mod developers and/or Council Members. There is no censorship, but content/editor guidelines exist (Sikret has a very nice summary about it here.) All in all, everyone is free to express his or her opinion (additionally, tactful wording is recommended, because otherwise the mod author might get a negative impression and won't be helpful). However, as I said, forum moderators (mod authors) are editors as well, so they may decide to ask a user to stop a discussion, if it brings no novelties to the discussion (e.g. the user repeats the same things again and again, or posts content that may mislead the readers of the mod's primary forum). That is, if a discussion is not fruitful according to the editor (moderator), the editor can stop it, and possibly filter the final content of the topic (e.g. move certain parts or the whole discussion to a different forum). In this case, if a user does not respect this decision of the editor, it means the user is violating forum rules (and will be warned). To sum up, don't be afraid to write your opinion at any time in an open discussion (or you can even start own discussions -- the "philosophical questions" thread is such an example -- unless the discussion type in question is restricted by the moderator).

Edit: (it doesn't deserve full size font, just a note) I decided to spend 2-3 minutes for it and visited a few topics of the G3 forum. When I have assumed you were "temujin", I thought it due to the similarities in the statements (e.g. he also said he had originally liked Impoved Anvil, but then for x, y and z reasons, he changed his mind; he also said something like "it is just a niche mod, but...", he used the same greeting formulas etc.) However, after that, I didn't encounter too many posts from him for a long time (unsurprisingly, also because I wasn't really looking for them lol), but now that I checked G3, I see that he can't be the same person as you (he really needs to visit a psychiater or psychologist, based on what I saw there). On the other hand, I had no doubts about you/whyohwhy: that time, out of curiosity, I asked some accurate information and the two accounts led to the same customer of the same ISP (maybe wavecable?). This may sound as an overkill, but we at BWL, admittedly, don't like when people register from secondary accounts for unacceptable reasons (this is why the Terms of Use prohibit it too)

Improved Anvil requires a lot of patience and time as Sikret forewarns in the Readme of IA ever since the beginning version, I would assume. Some players may get disturbed at the increased amount of time to complete the game compared to the regular ToB game. For me, if I get overly frustrated at a video game, I don't play it for a week or more, or even quit playing it all together. That is too much time to be consumed (for me) and then I don't get the satisfaction of:

(1) We learnt from something, we improved ourselves; from something which we would not have done if we hadn't been forced to do it.
(2) The feeling of success after hard work, after a challenge.

what Baronius wrote and I have seen Sikret justify the same concept although maybe not the exact same words.

Although the above points are very true, they do not necessarily apply to everyone that plays this game/mod or any other game for that matter. Some players play BGII (or video game of choice) for relaxing benefits and or "cool downs" just like other hobbies. They may get too angry at IA and then have negative opinions towards Sikret or IA. We're only human and sometimes we misjudge out of frustration or anger.

Exactly. Sikret stated countless times that Improved Anvil is not for everyone. Perhaps I should have mentioned that not everyone can complete the "hard work" and "challenge" I mentioned. Either because the player has no patience and persistence, or simply even doesn't want to try it (because he or she is looking for a more relaxing type of IE mod, with easy battles, romances etc.)

It is a very incorrect decision to criticize a complex mod before you've actually played it to the end. It is certainly not forbidden (at BWL), but discouraged -- especially in case of Improved Anvil. It is like criticizing a book before reading it to the end. Yes, I know that if the reader feels "I can't enjoy this, this book is not for me" after the first 5-20 pages, he or she shouldn't keep reading the book. In case of a mod, this means that the mod is not for him or her and should not be played further. However, if the mod is much fun but has some disadvantages according to the player, the player is advised to play the mod for a longer time (preferably, to the end) before jumping into conclusions about it. Without playing a complex mod to the end, there is no way to discover its new possibilities. (And all or most of the new possibilities can only be found after more walkthroughs of the mod).

This post has been edited by Baronius: Jan 25 2009, 04:00 PM