some notes on inquisitors & Keldorn Firecam Options

[Kerkes]

To be honest, I like inquisitor kit quite a bit. From a RPG perspective, he could be dubbed as a "divine dispeller" or something, from a pure gaming perspective: ultimate mage killing-machine with the power of a Divine God at his back...
I now find them a bit useless.
For many reasons.
Not that there's anything wrong with them as pure fighters (well, gimme a dwarf Berserker any day over an inquisitor anyway). What I did found out is this:
Until they hit REALLY high levels, they are useless. Their "dispel magic" is always lacking a bit. Or much. There are few fights where their "dispel" could be useful:
1)pirate coordinator - will it work in chp3? No. Will it be needed in chpt.6? No. Does anybody wait for chp6 to face them?
2)Dracolich. will it work before you exit Underdark? No. God knows I tried.
3)Noble Genie in Ust Natha, Deirex cave 2nd floor. It won't work.
4)If you're not evil, and go for Vanya's first quest (Rune Asassins) it will work sometimes (not always, depending on his lvl), but you'll probably have HLA's by then, your sorc will be an Avatar of Mass Destruction etc. Will you need "dispel" here? No, to say the truth. You'll have problems even casting it early on, with those Asassins hurting you. In my expirience, you can (and this is what usually happens) kill everybody and leave them for last, since they have elemental resistances, unlike most of the other thieves..
5)in any Dragon battle, Inqusitors are useless as dispelers, since dragons can be breached, wich is far more reliable than "dispel"
6)in late game (ToB) your cleric can probably dispel both Sendai and that Lich in her lair (forgot his name, has "Skull of Lich" for Spectral Brand and Pommel Jewel for Carsomyr), Abazigal also, which are the last enemies you'll be facing who use SI:div. Not to forget the fact that Inquisitor is a fighter. With Skeleton Granlords running around, you'll hardly have time to cast "dispel" vs.Lich. He'll also get silenced (probably), if not equiped with Amulet of Power. And you'll want that item on someone else here, trust me.
7)if you get to the point where their "dispel magic" gains power, you'll be more than well-equiped with knowledge on how to fight against enemies who use SI:div and SI:abj
8)final fight of Judgement Day. By the time you see this, you'll hardly need to "dispel" anything. Marilyths (Escorts, Demon Knights...) will be dispellable by your mage via "remove magic". Sure, he can dispel the main demon's pfmw. So can your cleric. Not to forget the fact you must be "good aligned single-class warrior" to actually see this fight.
9)Liches. Sure, it works (sometimes) at very high levels. It will also dispel your Death Ward, Prot Magic Energy, Prot Fire etc. Brilliant.
10)Guardians for Dragonslayer sword. Wee-hoo! It worked. Was it needed? At this levels (18), chpt6? - No.
11)it is a "dispel", not a "remove". This is a BIG problem. My f/m/c (I tried all this with a f/m/c prot) had a hard time keeping his SI active due to all those Rubys he was taking, and now he also had to worry about "friendly fire"? It sucks. How many times do you "need" a "dispel" instead a "remove"? I, myself, not once. Imp.haste is a very important spell, for practically any mid and late-game fight. Not to mention Prot mag Energy, which is essential. Unless you have a "perfect aim" for dispel (or SI active), it's gone.
12)Orcus. If you get a "dispel" off in this fight with an Inquisitor before you kill other enemies, you should get a Nobel Prize. Not to mention that Orcus has more than one PFMW casting. Cleric can also dispel him, if high lvl enough.
13)Samia wizard (Kaol) Not only do you have a hard time casting it, it also barely works at lvls17, 18, 19. A sorcerer, on the other hand, shines here at this levels.
14)EDE - my my... no comment on what inq can actually contribute here, and what a sorc cannot do. Right, sorc can "remove"....inq can not. He can dispel your pfme with a high probability.
The single advantage they have is the casting speed (it still gets disrupted), not the fact that their dispel is so powerful. A cleric basically falls 2 levels behind them for most of the game, due to the fact that clerics gain lvls so much faster. Not to forget that Cleric has also other spells to cast, not only "dispel".
15)for any oponnent who use SI:div and CAN be breached. As noted above, inquisitor won't do much good before he gets HLAs. Once your sorc get HLAs, he can Breach everybody via Wish, making inquisitors even more crappy.
Just what good are they if you have, for example, 2 sorcerers with 18 wis, practically ensuring you'll get the right Wish option?
16) Supreme Leader. It's not his pfmw casting that's the problem in this fight, so even if you do "dispel" it, it won't do much good.

As for Keldorn... I really gave this guy a lot of credit. I like him a lot for his character. How come only Valy had his strenght buffed up? "You still may use Belts." Aha. Wait till you find one. "strenght" spell? Try and see how long it will last when Keldorn sees Torgal. Potions? Damn expensive, dispellable. Dextery is also very low, actually abysmal. He has also one big issue (well, he has more than 1 issue ) - his armor.
It gives you 40% resistance to Magic Damage and a slight saving throw bonus. (+2)
Is it needed? It's useless. The one and only dangerous "magic damage" you'll be facing are ADHWs. Keldorn wields 2-handed wpns. You WILL forge Poseidon Halberd, right? What good is Keldorn's armor then? 25%missile resistance? If you want this that badly, forge Huskars armor. There are very few fights where immunity to missiles is useful, btw, and if it's not 100%, it won't do much good, since it's not the missiles which kill you. You also might want to use a very low AC vs.missiles instead. I SK'd Keldorn to use bastard swords and flails (Phosphorous) when I took him along to actually make this item upgrade useful and had a Berserker with Poseidon.
IMO, it's previous version (Free Action) would be much more useful in IA. Overpowered? yes, apsolutely. More useful? Try any spider fight, or Drow ambushes. EDE also.
15% resistance to MD on his non-upgraded armor? a Chain Con of 3xWiltings will kill him, regardless.
You may say: "Well, someone else can then wield PW halberd".
How many people use 2 fighters with 2-handed wpns? Very few from what I've seen.
The armor upgrade is incredibly expensive (waay too much... It does look cool however!), to say the least, since you must also buy Trachies Plate (which is useless), so the cost is actually around 125000 + all the items also used which could be sold (Beljurils etc.). Not to mention the wasting of Belt of Inertial Barrier.
Take another armor/item combo - Great Wyrm scale/Belt of inertial barrier. 125 000. Comes late, but Keldorn's armor may also come quite late.
50% mag.damage reduction, 75%fire reduction, wield any weapon you want. Takes your belt slot, but you can use Lum the Mad machine to get strenght to 19 or 20.
And play a berserker...

Now, you may argue/disagree with some points here, but that's where Inquisitors stand in IA IMO.. which is bad.
My solution to their problems would be to make them cast both "remove" and "dispel", in a way similar as sorcerers do.
For example - lvl 9 inq would have 3 spells to cast. So, he could cast 2x remove and 1x dispel.
Or/and, give them another +x to spellcasting lvl. There's really no point in playing them, since until they hit high levels they can't dispel anything but fighter potions. And when they do, you don't need it anymore. They just don't make a difference, and they should.
I know and understand that this has probably been tested before IA5 got out. I fail to see the point still. What good is an Inquisitor in party if he can't dispel anything IMPORTANT before HLAs? Your imp.haste will be dispelled, of course. He may fail to dispel even THAT sometimes. You're better off without him, and taking a normal fighter, or a sorcerer.
If you're a big fan of Paladins, I'd say: go for Cavalier. He's crappy compared to berserkers or barbarians (not to mention kensai..or rangers) but immunity to poison and fear (which will be removed, unfortunately I must say. I hardly see this as an "unfair advantage" over anything) are much better than "Charm" and "Hold" immunities of Inquisitor kit.

This post has been edited by Kerkes: Nov 1 2008, 06:57 PM

[Kerkes]

ahmm....
lvl 17 Inquisitor vs.Dracolich? No chance for a reliable dispel (it barely works, I dunno if we're talking about same levels or the same Draco here ), so Inq won't "shine" here (a dwarf will, on the other hand), he will be useless. Buy you 4 rounds (or less?! Summoning will buy you all the time you need.) You'll still need summons. Even if he gets lucky sometimes, Draco has more than a few pfmws. You'll still have to wait him out. And it will dispel your DW also if you're not careful. I played this once with Keldorn on 25th lvl. Sure, he could dispel him regulary. Custom lvl 17 inq? (effective casting level 22) Once, one single time. A cleric can overwhelm him with Skeletons, which is even better than dispeling him (and worrying about your DW on, Draco does that pretty good) if you play that well. Basically, playing with "dispel" for Inqs means "getting lucky" IMO. What can he do? Stand a bit back so that he doesn't get disrupted, cast "dispel" and pray that it works ( while your fighters run away from it, sice they're dead if it cathes them against something with a CC 3xADHW, or a trigger with Chain Lightnings) . If it doesn't, recast, or reload, so that it eventually works. "dispel" has always at least 1% chance to suceed, so you can reload on anything until it finally works, and you don't need an Inq for that kind of gameplay. Not my cup of tea for sure.
As for Samia, I usually use Wish for breaching Kaol , far more reliable than dispel here, even at random. (of course, you can get an Inq to lvl 20+, so it will probably work. I don't fight them so late, but if I did, I'd hardly need a "dispel", since a sorc with 4 or 6 lvl9 spells can wreak havoc on them anyway) You can also kill everybody else before him, he isn't all that big of a problem anyway. My bard dispelled Kaol on 2nd try (without reloads). with a "remove", of course, so I need not to worry about my kensai and B-C who have no SI:abj on getting hit by something nasty. So, a 22 (or 23, don't remember) level bard can dispel him, probably with a very decent chance of sucess.
I think not being able to return to Underdark deeper dungeons is a very good idea, not so for Draco but for Demon Knights (which are far worse IMO) it would be good.
I don't see casting a "remove" too powerful/unbalancing for them, they are so much nerfed already. Draco isn't all that hard anyway, Samia also isn't THAT hard so that having or not having an Inq in party will actually make a difference, which is the thing I'm trying to say. It can alter your gameplay a bit, but not much. I'll take a sorcerer any day over an Inquisitor now, far more useful. A vanilla dwarf fighter is also better for my taste.
Another thing is that many oponnents simply use SI:abj, making their dispel useless at the start of the battle.
In EDE, really, their "dispel" can kill you out-right if you're not mega-careful about where to cast it (you'll want to use it on something with pfmw, and those oponnents are very close to your melee fighters). even more so if you're not wearing an armor with mag dmg resistance and some fire res gear or innate abilities.
Also, as I said, a sorc will always sucessfuly dispel Rakshasas at those levels, making Inqs utterly useless here.

Edited for one more tought, from a PM I got (I completely forgot about that, but one good player did not):
mr. Kaol CAN be hit by normal wpns without problem. He uses PFMW. Inq is crap even in this battle. I fail to see any irony in my previous post.
Just my toughts, and reasons I quit playing them.

This post has been edited by Kerkes: Nov 2 2008, 08:45 PM