Learning spells from scrolls Options

[Sikret]

Arguments and counter-arguments:

Arguments for option 1:

(I) We don't need to remove the xp granted by writing scrolls, because erasing spells from spellbook and writing them over and over again is a cheat and if a player intends to cheat, he will eventually use the console command or an editor to add xp to his characters when he sees that re-writing scrolls doesn't work for this purpose. So, why should we bother with removing the xp when there are other ways to cheat?

(II) The xp gained by learning spells from scrolls is a very nice and handy feature early in the game to help low level parties boost their xp to some extent (not by erasing and re-writing, of course). It's not the best choice to remove this handy feature just because some cheaters may abuse it. Blocking cheats is good, but only if it won't affect legitimate players' games in any way (in this case, it does).

Arguments for option 2:

(I) Players who play the game legitimately and do not practice erasing and rewriting scrolls won't notice any significant change in their game if we remove the xp granted by writing scrolls, because the total amount of xp a legitimate player gains from writing scrolls isn't that much in the entire game. He writes each spell only once and removing the xp won't affect his game. On the other hand, this change can appropriately block the xp exploit some players use. It's true that erasing spells and writing them over and over again is a cheat and doesn't actually have any difference with using the console command or editors to add xp to characters, but some misguided players do believe that there is a difference between these methods; as long as they can do something inside the game without using console commands or editors they think that it is fine. All in all, other players who don't abuse such exploits should not worry about this suggested tweak, because it won't affect their games in any noticeable way.

(II) Moreover, why should learning a spell grant thousands of xp at all (specially when even failing to learn it can be easily overcome by trying another scroll of the same spell again and again till success - not to mention the possibility to reload the game)?

(III) Since mages have an HLA to scribe scrolls, they have also unlimited number of scrolls in the game. In the progress report for IA v6, it is mentioned that scrolls gained via the HLA won't have any market price and can't be sold for infinite gold. When we block the exploits for infinite gold why should we not block it for infinite xp these scrolls can offer?

I hope that I have been fair in offering the arguments for both options. As for myself, I am honestly 50-50 and undecided. Both sides' arguments have merits. That's why I'm asking for your opinions.

Vote and send a reply containing your vote and your reasons as well (anonymous votes will be ignored).

Also, note that if you see the results before voting, you won't be able to vote afterwards.

Thanks.

[Sikret]

Ok, thank you very much everyone for your input. When I started this poll, my mental state was 50-50 between the two options, but reading the arguments and re-thinking and reconsidering them made some difference; so, the poll was, in general, very helpful to me.

let me summarize what we have got so far:

Arguments for option 1 (leaving it as it is):

(I) Cheaters will cheat anyway; so don't bother to block cheat.

This was mentioned in my initial post and was echoed by almost everyone who votes for option 1.

This argument alone is not convincing to me. If I was supposed to take this argument as something convincing, I shouldn't have fixed any other exploits in the game, but I have blocked lots of them. I can go even further and say that if I was thinking that this argument was convincing, I wouldn't have even fixed most of the vanilla game bugs I have fixed in IA. Let me give you an example:

If you play the game without IA, Boots of Speed can be exploited in a particular way. The boots bonus to speed could stack with the speed bonus of (Improved) Haste, resulting in a character with quadruple speed. I have fixed this bug in IA even though the statement that "cheaters can cheat anyway" is still true and a cheater who wants to have a character with quadruple speed can still use editors to give the (x4) speed to his character. Nonetheless, the fact that a cheater can cheat this way or the other didn't stop me from fixing the bug.

The same is true for every bugfix and exploit-fix in the game. Cheaters will always have ways to undo your bugfixes or exploit-fixes and to re-create those bugs and exploits in their games (the easiest method can sometimes be deleting files from the override folder), but this fact doesn't provide any valid argument for not fixing bugs or exploits.

If there are still n ways to cheat xp in the game, it can't be a wrong decision to block one of them and to leave the cheaters with n-1 ways to cheat (unless we can find other and independent reasons against blocking the exploit in a particular case; and this is what leads us to argument II below).

(II) Argument from early-game difficulty:

This is by far the strongest and most convincing argument in favor of option 1 in the poll. It goes as follows:

The xp that a legitimate player can gain by learning spells is a handy tool to add to party's power at early stages of the game. Since, most IA players find the early stages of the game difficult. Removing the xp from learning spells can make the game unnecessarily a lot harder.

The value of this argument can't be assessed by merely theoretical speculations. What I will do is this:

I will temporarily apply the suggested tweak and will ask IA's testing team (or at least, some of them) to start a new game and play from the scratch and report to me whether the lack of xp for learning spells does (or doesn't) make any significant and noticeable difference in the game's difficulty for them.

Practical test is the only way to settle this question.

None of the other arguments for option 1 look to be convincing or appealing to me. The argument from dual-classing (for example) actually works in favor of option 2, because (as I mentioned in my second post in this thread) relying on the easy xp of scrolls to activate your character's first class after dual-classing is itself a very questionable method.

Arguments for option 2 (removing the xp):

(III) Legitimate players have no reason to say "no":

This argument says the opposite of what argument (II) above says. It says that if a player doesn't really intend to abuse the xp exploit of erasing and re-writing spells from scrolls, he has no reason to worry about this tweak, because the total amount of xp a legitimate player gains via learing spells in the entire game is so small that he won't notice any change in his game.

Just like argument (II), this argument can only be assessed after I receive my testers' reports of whether they notice any significant difference for absence of the xp or not. Until then, I can't say much about this argument nor about argument (II).

(IV) LZJ's argument from unlimited scrolls from HLAs:

This one is a very strong and decisive argument. The Scribe Scroll HLA suuplies the party with an unlimited stock of scrolls which can be used for unlimited xp

(V) Argument from fake learning failure:

This is the argument I offered here.

Unlike the way it works in pnp, failing to learn a spell is a mere joke in BG2, because the mage is still allowed to retry learning the same spell over and over again. Hence, learning spell in BG2 needs no special effort or luck or whatever and consequently, it doesn't deserve any xp.

Conclusion:

As far as theoretical arguments are concerned, the arguments for option 2 seem to be stronger and more convincing to me. The only thing which stands between me and choosing option 2 as my final decision is the argument (II) in favor of option 1 mentioned earlier in this post (the one which requires empirical tests). I will postpone making the final decision to when I receive my testers' reports to see whether the lack of xp gained via learning spells does or doesn't affect their games in any noticeable and unpleasant way. The results of practical tests will tell me what to do.

Thanks again, everyone. The poll will remain open for a while, but I will unpin it in the near future.