Learning spells from scrolls Options

[Sikret]

Arguments and counter-arguments:

Arguments for option 1:

(I) We don't need to remove the xp granted by writing scrolls, because erasing spells from spellbook and writing them over and over again is a cheat and if a player intends to cheat, he will eventually use the console command or an editor to add xp to his characters when he sees that re-writing scrolls doesn't work for this purpose. So, why should we bother with removing the xp when there are other ways to cheat?

(II) The xp gained by learning spells from scrolls is a very nice and handy feature early in the game to help low level parties boost their xp to some extent (not by erasing and re-writing, of course). It's not the best choice to remove this handy feature just because some cheaters may abuse it. Blocking cheats is good, but only if it won't affect legitimate players' games in any way (in this case, it does).

Arguments for option 2:

(I) Players who play the game legitimately and do not practice erasing and rewriting scrolls won't notice any significant change in their game if we remove the xp granted by writing scrolls, because the total amount of xp a legitimate player gains from writing scrolls isn't that much in the entire game. He writes each spell only once and removing the xp won't affect his game. On the other hand, this change can appropriately block the xp exploit some players use. It's true that erasing spells and writing them over and over again is a cheat and doesn't actually have any difference with using the console command or editors to add xp to characters, but some misguided players do believe that there is a difference between these methods; as long as they can do something inside the game without using console commands or editors they think that it is fine. All in all, other players who don't abuse such exploits should not worry about this suggested tweak, because it won't affect their games in any noticeable way.

(II) Moreover, why should learning a spell grant thousands of xp at all (specially when even failing to learn it can be easily overcome by trying another scroll of the same spell again and again till success - not to mention the possibility to reload the game)?

(III) Since mages have an HLA to scribe scrolls, they have also unlimited number of scrolls in the game. In the progress report for IA v6, it is mentioned that scrolls gained via the HLA won't have any market price and can't be sold for infinite gold. When we block the exploits for infinite gold why should we not block it for infinite xp these scrolls can offer?

I hope that I have been fair in offering the arguments for both options. As for myself, I am honestly 50-50 and undecided. Both sides' arguments have merits. That's why I'm asking for your opinions.

Vote and send a reply containing your vote and your reasons as well (anonymous votes will be ignored).

Also, note that if you see the results before voting, you won't be able to vote afterwards.

Thanks.

[Zarathustra]

I also support option 1:

(I) Cheaters will cheat anyway.

(II) Most scrolls can be sold for good gold, and since wealth management in IA actually does matter beyond the first couple of hours, that is a solid counter-incentive for those who might be tempted to exploit the XP.

(III) In early-to-mid-game (i.e. mostly before gaining HLAs) scrolls can make a real difference, particularly in the hands of a nerfed IA6 bard, I would presume; another counter-incentive to using them solely for minor XP gain.

(IV) The Scribe Scrolls HLA could easily be replaced with something more useful (say, an extra level 9 slot HLA); I think even removing it entirely would hardly affect game balance by the time choosing HLAs becomes possible.

This post has been edited by Zarathustra: Oct 7 2008, 01:13 PM

[Sikret]

Thanks, everyone.

Please keep introducing arguments and counter-arguments for this suggested tweak.

removing exp gained through scrolls when learning will make it harder for characters which dual class at the beginning of a game

To be honest, the argument from dual-classing doesn't look to be convincing to me, because it's itself very questionable whether it is a fair method to rely on the easy xp of writing scrolls in your spellbook to activate your first class after dual-classing. If you have dualled your character's class, then why don't you play and gain xp through adventuring?

removing xp from scrolls is almost the same as remove xp for traps and locks it is a feature of class one

Actually, there is some difference between the two. The number of traps is not infinite. However, I also think that the xp gained for disarming traps is itself a bit too high and can be rebalanced as another tweak.

(I) Cheaters will cheat anyway.

Yes, this is the first argument I offered in my initial post as well.

(II) Most scrolls can be sold for good gold, and since wealth management in IA actually does matter beyond the first couple of hours, that is a solid counter-incentive for those who might be tempted to exploit the XP.

The gold exploits have already been blocked in v6. The number of sellable scrolls are no longer infinite.

(III) In early-to-mid-game (i.e. mostly before gaining HLAs) scrolls can make a real difference, particularly in the hands of a nerfed IA6 bard, I would presume; another counter-incentive to using them solely for minor XP gain.

There are also many scrolls noone wants to use (Color Spray, Sleep, Know Alignment, etc, etc...scrolls of spells which are not much useful) and they can't work as an counter-incentive, right?

(IV) The Scribe Scrolls HLA could easily be replaced with something more useful (say, an extra level 9 slot HLA); I think even removing it entirely would hardly affect game balance by the time choosing HLAs becomes possible.

Replacing the HLA could be a good suggestion, but it's now a bit too late for it, because I have already spent a lot of time on tweaking these HLAs to alter their results and block the gold exploits they could offer (nonetheless, I will keep this suggestion in mind and may replace or remove the scribe scrolls HLAs in the future; I'm not sure yet).

All this said, I'm still undecided and look forward to reading more arguments. Thanks again.

[Zarathustra]

(II) Most scrolls can be sold for good gold, and since wealth management in IA actually does matter beyond the first couple of hours, that is a solid counter-incentive for those who might be tempted to exploit the XP.

The gold exploits have already been blocked in v6. The number of sellable scrolls are no longer infinite.

Still, the argument applies to non-scribed scrolls (hence, "most" of them in an average game). Or have you also made some non-scribed scrolls unsellable?

(III) In early-to-mid-game (i.e. mostly before gaining HLAs) scrolls can make a real difference, particularly in the hands of a nerfed IA6 bard, I would presume; another counter-incentive to using them solely for minor XP gain.

There are also many scrolls noone wants to use (Color Spray, Sleep, Know Alignment, etc, etc...scrolls of spells which are not much useful) and they can't work as an counter-incentive, right?

Argument II still applies to those, though; both gold gain and XP gain would be minor, but I for one would generally prefer the gold. Furthermore, I think such nigh-useless scrolls aren't created by the HLA, anyway, so there will be few, if any, scrolls that are both useless and unsellable. One counter-incentive will always apply.

This post has been edited by Zarathustra: Oct 7 2008, 02:12 PM