UB bug still present in v16, [split by Baronius] Options

[Baronius]

The bug was known for v15 already. Wouldn't it be easier to fix it in UB itself?

[This topic was split from this]

[Jarno Mikkola]

At its current status, the Bg2 fixpack is best be called a "bugpack" rather than a "fixpack".

Yes, if it's installed with certain other mods. But the IA isn't so perfect either in the same respect. The TDD etc.

it is NOT compulsory for anyone to use.

It isn't, but:
1. Thanks to their propaganda, most players believe it IS compulsory to use it...

Don't know about the IA, but it's compulsory for all the former BP megamod related mods, as one of the fixes is needed for the Worldmap mod which is needed for the BP megamods, yes, it's a mess...

Of course you Baronius are right that the G3BG2Fixpack's core fixes component needs overhaul, to separate the components as well as the modern WeiDU can, while still reserving the ultra compatibility with the Big World Project with the one button push... For this there the question must be ala: Would you like to 1) to install all components(ala BP megamod), 2) to install all components(ala XYZ megamod)... A) to ask for each component, N) for no, and Q) for quit.

For this to be realistically done, does anybody have:
1) The time and knowledge to code this. (or)
2) More precise documentation of the fix resources than the .tp2 and this, ps. I could see the blue headlines on the link to be the base for the different components.
3) A willing group tester.(this should be easy)
4) Additional components.

This post has been edited by Jarno Mikkola: Aug 29 2008, 01:52 PM

[Sikret]

At its current status, the Bg2 fixpack is best be called a "bugpack" rather than a "fixpack".

Yes, if it's installed with certain other mods.

No, even if you install it alone, it will add lots of bugs to your game.

The so called BG2 fixpack has two types of bugs:

1- Plain bugs, which will affect your game even if you install it alone.
2- Hidden bugs, which will come to surface and show themselves only in presence of some other mods (and no, they are not simple compatibility issues; they are bugs in FP).

Also, what you quoted was only the last part of a paragraph. The missing part is this:

Moreover, since their mod is supposed to be a fixpack, they should give even a more serious attention to testing it than other mods. A fixpack should not add so many new bugs to the game.

Which says the same thing Baronius wrote in his reply to your post.

[DavidW]

2- Hidden bugs, which will come to surface and show themselves only in presence of some other mods (and no, they are not simple compatibility issues; they are bugs in FP).

So I'm wondering what would make something a "hidden bug" and not an incompatibility issue. The kind of example that comes to mind is a .CRE file whose Effect index has been set to zero but which doesn't itself have any effects, so that anything which tries to add effects will corrupt the file (Baldurdash does this to TOMEGOL4, as I've recently discovered in debugging SCSII). I can see the case for calling that a bug even though it has no in-game effect (play with just Baldurdash installed and you'll notice nothing).

Is that what you mean by a "hidden bug" (in which case I'm surprised that there are many such in Fixpack, but I'm happy to be corrected), or do you mean something else?

[Sikret]

So I'm wondering what would make something a "hidden bug" and not an incompatibility issue. The kind of example that comes to mind is a .CRE file whose Effect index has been set to zero but which doesn't itself have any effects, so that anything which tries to add effects will corrupt the file (Baldurdash does this to TOMEGOL4, as I've recently discovered in debugging SCSII). I can see the case for calling that a bug even though it has no in-game effect (play with just Baldurdash installed and you'll notice nothing).

Yes, this is a good example of a hidden bug (as an important note, it's the WeiDu version of Baldurdash which touches Tomegol4 -- not the original Baldurdash -- and I don't know what exactly it does with that file; Vlad should know the answer).

There are other sorts of such hidden bugs as well.

Bg2 fixpack has such bugs, but I hope you don't expect me to point them out here, because I'm not going to play the role of yet another free tester for those who don't test their own mods.

EDIT: Using the term "Free" in 'free tester', I was not talking about money (as it should be already clear for those who don't want to intentionally misinterpret my words). Some people release mods by putting a bunch of codes into it without giving the least attention to testing and without giving any value to the players' time. Then they sit back waiting for the players' bug reports (expecting players to do what the mod's developers and their testing team should have done before releasing it). My point was that I was not going to fall in that trap by giving them the exact information they needed to fix the bugs in their mods. If they want to release a bugfree mod, they should work hard to acheive the goal (that's exactly what we do in developing IA. I don't say "what I do", I say "what we do". I have my own testing team for IA and I give them the biggest credit for IA's quality at every opportunity). Releasing high quality mods requires investing time and effort on it.

This post has been edited by Sikret: Aug 30 2008, 11:45 PM

[DavidW]

So I'm wondering what would make something a "hidden bug" and not an incompatibility issue. The kind of example that comes to mind is a .CRE file whose Effect index has been set to zero but which doesn't itself have any effects, so that anything which tries to add effects will corrupt the file (Baldurdash does this to TOMEGOL4, as I've recently discovered in debugging SCSII). I can see the case for calling that a bug even though it has no in-game effect (play with just Baldurdash installed and you'll notice nothing).

Yes, this is a good example of a hidden bug (as an important note, it's the WeiDu version of Baldurdash which touches Tomegol4 -- not the original Baldurdash -- and I don't know what exactly it does with that file; Vlad should know the answer).

There are other sorts of such hidden bugs as well.

Bg2 fixpack has such bugs, but I hope you don't expect me to point them out here, because I'm not going to play the role of yet another free tester for those who don't test their own mods.

Well, it's not my problem how the mod is or isn't tested, but you (and Baronius) have been admirably strong on the importance, when criticising others' mods, of providing concrete evidence rather than just making comments, so yes, I guess I would like to see some examples. I don't think I've seen any mentioned in previous discussions of this kind (the reason I got involved in the previous discussion of hidden bugs on SP was that I thought that for those examples, "incompatibilities" was a better name than "hidden bugs"; those examples aren't bugs in the sense you and I are using it in these posts.)

PS Are there "non-free" testers - can we pay people to test our mods? I'd seriously consider it:)

This post has been edited by DavidW: Aug 30 2008, 11:02 PM