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> UB bug still present in v16, [split by Baronius]
Baronius
post Mar 17 2008, 10:47 PM
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From: Magyarország




The bug was known for v15 already. Wouldn't it be easier to fix it in UB itself?

[This topic was split from this]


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Baronius
post Aug 29 2008, 11:38 AM
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Master of energies
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Joined: 9-July 04
From: Magyarország




They're still manipulating, and the practice has always seemed to prove that (regardless who interprets what post and how). For example, in case of Improved Anvil V1, after the repeated "No" answers of Sikret (who also provided technical arguments to reason his viewpoint), they still kept bothering Sikret (and trolls also arrive), and when it finally ended, certain people -- including mod developers -- started to spread various false things about Improved Anvil ("it is built to deliberately break other mods"), because that was what they believed, or they simply lied. The G3 FP developers involved didn't clarify them, in fact kept manipulating everyone. Otherwise, why would a mod developer believe such things? It's OK that a player misreads something, but a mod developer is either not a modder if speaks like that, or simply believes all what the G3FP main developers say and advertise.

QUOTE
That could break some mods, but that doesnt mean its a bug within the Fixpack itself. Indeed, if a mod claims Fixpack support, then it is a bug within the mod itself. If the mod does not support Fixpack, then its a compatibility problem.
It's a question of definition, but I agree with you -- in this topic, I've never said it's a fixpack "bug" that it may break other mods. It's a severe problem, no matter how we define it. Exactly as you say: a compatibility problem: that is what I call "incompatibility risk". If you think it's acceptable to have tons of "compatibility problems" (which could be avoided with correct design and verification) in standard fixpack that is meant to be used by ALL game installs and that it's the duty of the third-party mod to correct these problems, then there is no need to say anything.

QUOTE
Nobody listens and your point is wasted. Look at how people respond to you when you do so, on both G3 and SP. They just about ignore you, or at the least deride you.

*sigh*
When the topic is brought up, I tend to repeat my arguments, perhaps in a different form than earlier, but the point is the same.
Look at those people whose post I linked in an earlier post (Ymarsakar, luan, etc.) -- do you think I bribed them?
Look at the person who is one of the BG1NPC project authors, Blucher. Do you think I bribed him? Yes, what he said is very similar to what I say, totally independently from me (yeah, I'm not saying I convinced him about anything -- we haven't ever communicated online).
Look at Wounded Lion, who also brought up at G3 that the G3 FP isn't correctly tested. Did I perhaps bribe him or influence him?
So, please allow me to decide on my own what I think readers may be interested in, or what I think they may not be interested in.

On a side note, mentioning the .NET framework is a poor analogy here. It's not something that is untested or tends to break software that is based on it. OK, it might have bugs here and there (I had the possibility of seeing an ExecutionEngineException caught by VS2008 in WPF), but it's not something that regularly causes problems.


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Baronius   UB bug still present in v16   Mar 17 2008, 10:47 PM
kulyok   Naturally, and I do wish it were fixed, as well as...   Mar 18 2008, 07:46 AM
Sikret   Naturally, and I do wish it were fixed, as well as...   Mar 19 2008, 08:20 AM
Jab   UB and QP have been severely bugged for years. The...   Mar 19 2008, 04:26 PM
Moongaze   I agree about stability. ....and likely writing i...   Mar 19 2008, 08:29 AM
Sikret   "Stability" is not the only criterion, b...   Mar 19 2008, 09:54 AM
Sikret   @Jab It's funny that you quoted a paragraph w...   Mar 19 2008, 04:56 PM
Jab   Misreading my name for Vlad's is the simplest ...   Mar 19 2008, 05:16 PM
Sikret   No flamewar is in progress in this thread; it...   Mar 19 2008, 06:58 PM
Jab   No flamewar is in progress in this thread; it...   Mar 19 2008, 07:20 PM
Sikret   No flamewar is in progress in this thread; it...   Mar 19 2008, 08:08 PM
Baronius   1) Some people consider this as a competition (or ...   Mar 19 2008, 08:58 PM
The Bigg   I was going to post about how backwards compatibil...   Mar 19 2008, 09:14 PM
Baronius   Accidents and problems always happen, but: 1) It ...   Mar 19 2008, 09:48 PM
DavidW   I'm deeply reluctant (as a newish observer of ...   Mar 20 2008, 02:07 AM
Valiant   Exaggerating you say? Well, not at all. I believe ...   Mar 20 2008, 08:44 AM
Baronius   First of all, it's important to note that the ...   Mar 20 2008, 09:01 PM
SimDing0   The is pretty good work, guys. You're actually...   Mar 22 2008, 01:08 PM
Valiant   The is pretty good work, guys. You're actually...   Mar 22 2008, 01:37 PM
SimDing0   Because this is all daft and I don't care?   Mar 22 2008, 01:50 PM
Valiant   If you don´t care and all is daft, then just simp...   Mar 22 2008, 01:53 PM
SimDing0   Expressing my contempt for the proceedings is a pe...   Mar 22 2008, 01:57 PM
Valiant   If you say so...   Mar 22 2008, 02:01 PM
DavidW   Replying rather late (I've been away). I'm...   Mar 25 2008, 01:05 PM
Sikret   UB has many other serious bugs even if we put asid...   Mar 25 2008, 02:50 PM
Baronius   They are interrelated to a certain extent (depende...   Mar 25 2008, 02:51 PM
DavidW   Almost forgot: It's a specific case, indeed. ...   Mar 25 2008, 03:50 PM
DavidW   Okay, so I seriously don't want to get into di...   Mar 25 2008, 03:47 PM
Baronius   Then the coupling of SCS2 is stronger than I thoug...   Mar 25 2008, 04:06 PM
plainab   I recently came across this issue as I was working...   Aug 27 2008, 11:23 PM
Baronius   Nice solution, plainab. :thumb: It's "int...   Aug 28 2008, 02:51 AM
plainab   He likes the code and that makes me happy. :D ...   Aug 28 2008, 08:02 AM
Baronius   @plainab: This is exactly why I gave up any attem...   Aug 28 2008, 05:05 PM
Sir_Carnifex   I haven't said anything in these fixpack, etc....   Aug 28 2008, 05:39 PM
Sikret   the G3FP developers have defined a new way of tria...   Aug 28 2008, 10:21 PM
DavidW   the G3FP developers have defined a new way of tria...   Aug 28 2008, 10:33 PM
plainab   I need to calm down. 10...9...8...7...6...5...4.....   Aug 28 2008, 10:06 PM
Sikret   The fact that the developers of BG2 fixpack don...   Aug 28 2008, 10:47 PM
DavidW   And the last point: if you are ready to object aga...   Aug 28 2008, 10:57 PM
Baronius   DavidW, I'm sure Sikret has even less hope tha...   Aug 28 2008, 11:18 PM
Ancalagon_UK   Theres something I still dont get though, Baronius...   Aug 29 2008, 09:53 AM
Sikret   Theres something I still dont get though, Baronius...   Aug 29 2008, 10:24 AM
Ancalagon_UK   Ba ha ha ha ha! Yes, you are attacking it. You...   Aug 29 2008, 10:40 AM
Sikret   Actually no, players who use free mods have no rig...   Aug 29 2008, 11:16 AM
Baronius   Ancalagon_UK, I would suggest to you to study the ...   Aug 29 2008, 10:44 AM
DavidW   3. They blackmail mod developers to use the G3 Fix...   Aug 29 2008, 11:20 AM
The Bigg   proper testing IS possible, if they allocate time ...   Aug 29 2008, 11:57 AM
Ancalagon_UK   hey I'm a professional software developer wi...   Aug 29 2008, 11:19 AM
Baronius   They're still manipulating, and the practice h...   Aug 29 2008, 11:38 AM
DavidW   Is this partly the issue? I don't and didn...   Aug 29 2008, 11:45 AM
Baronius   Well, I do. They have succeeded to advertise it e...   Aug 29 2008, 11:55 AM
DavidW   Well, I do. Okay, so since I don't really ...   Aug 29 2008, 12:06 PM
Baronius   As I've said, it's a question of definiti...   Aug 29 2008, 12:06 PM
coaster   A player's perspective - I am not even going t...   Aug 29 2008, 01:08 PM
Jarno Mikkola   At its current status, the Bg2 fixpack is best be ...   Aug 29 2008, 01:50 PM
Sikret   At its current status, the Bg2 fixpack is best be ...   Aug 30 2008, 10:33 PM
DavidW   2- Hidden bugs, which will come to surface and sho...   Aug 30 2008, 10:40 PM
Sikret   So I'm wondering what would make something a ...   Aug 30 2008, 10:51 PM
DavidW   So I'm wondering what would make something a ...   Aug 30 2008, 11:00 PM
Jarno Mikkola   No, even if you install it alone, it will add lots...   Sep 1 2008, 11:25 AM
Sikret   Like what? If we are talking about the key items t...   Sep 1 2008, 02:30 PM
Lorph Halys   See my edit to this post for the reason I'm no...   Sep 1 2008, 02:51 PM
Baronius   If this has been your impression, then I must have...   Aug 29 2008, 04:32 PM
Sir_Carnifex   Even if you are right, if you resort to posting li...   Aug 29 2008, 05:18 PM
The Bigg   This from a person who actively participates in th...   Aug 29 2008, 05:26 PM
Sir_Carnifex   Under the name Proteus_Za or something like that. ...   Aug 29 2008, 05:35 PM
The Bigg   Shows how much attention I have for details (and t...   Aug 29 2008, 05:37 PM
Ardanis   I could just sign under this statement. I wonder ...   Aug 29 2008, 09:15 PM
Sir_Carnifex   I wonder if anyone posting there is actually being...   Aug 29 2008, 11:22 PM
Baronius   The anonymity of the internet and the lack of need...   Aug 30 2008, 12:34 AM
DavidW   It usually reflects a weak character, a weak perso...   Aug 30 2008, 10:17 AM
Ardanis   I was as serious as possible about blackmailing. I...   Aug 30 2008, 01:28 AM
Baronius   I suspect it's also about different forum po...   Aug 30 2008, 02:25 PM
Lorph Halys   Having at least made an attempt to read your enorm...   Aug 30 2008, 05:04 PM
Baronius   They indeed consider it a big popularity contest, ...   Aug 30 2008, 05:37 PM
Lorph Halys   On the other hand, we've never cared if many p...   Aug 30 2008, 06:23 PM
Baronius   Two different things. As everyone else, I believe...   Aug 30 2008, 06:46 PM
Lorph Halys   And I still believe you're strongly influenced...   Aug 30 2008, 07:06 PM
Jab   These threads are just hatcheries for trolls. Give...   Aug 30 2008, 06:50 PM
Baronius   Thanks Jab, I'm not trying to convince G3 FP d...   Aug 30 2008, 06:52 PM
Sir_Carnifex   But it takes fire and acid to kill them. So... :)   Aug 30 2008, 06:54 PM
Baronius   @Jab: I hope that's some fine Czech beer in yo...   Aug 30 2008, 06:59 PM
Jab   Baronius: I must say, that I don't consider ot...   Aug 30 2008, 07:07 PM
Baronius   True. Sometimes one unintentionally generalizes i...   Aug 30 2008, 07:15 PM
DavidW   Okay, so two quick points: 1) I think it would be...   Aug 30 2008, 08:21 PM
Baronius   As I've emphasized earlier, it's a matter ...   Aug 30 2008, 11:12 PM
DavidW   Well, to be fair, it's my terminology to call ...   Aug 30 2008, 11:22 PM
Ardanis   BTW, this indeed might have something to do with h...   Aug 30 2008, 11:45 PM
Baronius   You don't need to thank anything, but I'm ...   Aug 30 2008, 11:47 PM
DavidW   I know I've quoted it already, but I like it s...   Aug 31 2008, 10:36 AM
Baronius   I forgot to emphasize that I was interpreting your...   Aug 31 2008, 11:46 AM
DavidW   I agree that discussing definitions can get tireso...   Aug 31 2008, 11:29 PM
Baronius   For Sikret and me, it doesn't. There is no ne...   Sep 1 2008, 12:37 AM
plainab   This is true. However, may I bring up something t...   Sep 1 2008, 05:25 AM
The Bigg   I think it's pretty poor of a program's de...   Sep 1 2008, 10:30 AM
DavidW   To avoid getting enmeshed in a philosophy-of-langu...   Sep 1 2008, 09:25 AM
coaster   Unfortunately there are a few bugs outstanding in ...   Sep 1 2008, 01:50 PM
The Bigg   TBH I wonder whether the "suck it and see...   Sep 1 2008, 02:00 PM
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