UB bug still present in v16, [split by Baronius] Options

[Baronius]

The bug was known for v15 already. Wouldn't it be easier to fix it in UB itself?

[This topic was split from this]

[Ancalagon_UK]

Theres something I still dont get though, Baronius and Sikret.

No one is forcing you to use BG2 Fixpack at all. No one. Not CamDawg, not me, not DavidW, not George Bush, not Nelson Mandela. You can explicitly state in any mod you like that Fixpack is not supported, anyone who wants to use your mod should remove it from their computer and never use it again if they plan to use your mod.

Is there a big problem with that? Is there a problem with letting Fixpack do what Fixpack does, and then you just do what you do? Why do you have to keep on attacking it? IA is explicitly incompatible with it, so why bother attacking it?

If you relied on Fixpack, and needed Fixpack, and depended on Fixpack, then perhaps you would, as a stakeholder, have a say in how it should be run. But because you obviously never use it, then perhaps just leave it alone? I think Apple products are overpriced and too restrictive, but I dont go telling my colleague his iPod was a big waste of money. I let him do what he wants, it doesnt affect me. How does Fixpack affect you?

I'm well aware that Fixpack makes some changes that you disagree with. But lets set out some facts:

1. Baldurs Gate 2 has problems that need fixing.
2. To fix those problems, some changes are needed.
3. Because of those changes, some mods that depend on things being broken, or at least different, may no longer work correctly.

Fixpack then, as I see it, has several options. They can

1. Do nothing.
2. Fix things as they see fit.
3. Fix things as you see fit (which, some might argue, is very similar to 1.).

Now, I prefer 2. I understand that, as BG2 can be a heated issue for some, some changes can be controversial. But surely Camdawg et al have the right to decide what goes into their mod, and what doesnt? It is their mod after all. It may be used by the public at large, but at the end of the day it is still produced by people who have a right to do what they like. Conversely, BG2 players have a right to NOT use it, or use it if they will. Also, mod makers have the right to support it, or not support it. Given that, I dont see why you have a problem. They could, if they wanted to, turn Irenicus into a 18/22 Mage/Cleric. Doesnt mean anybody is forced to use their mod, doesnt mean anybody is forced to play with Irenicus as a Mage/Cleric.

The thing to remember is that, despite its stated purpose (to fix things), it is still a mod. Thus, it is NOT compulsory for anyone to use. Should I rip on IA, even though I dont use it? Would you think that was fair? Should I criticize IA for not being compatible with my favourite mods, for "breaking" things? I dont see any difference in the two activities.

As for testing... Sikret, are you volunteering to donate the much needed hours to testing? Camdawg et al dont work for free, its unreasonable to expect testing, just as its unreasonable to expect everyone to use it. If you dont like it, dont use it. Testing is definitely worth doing in a software development environment, but it takes a lot of time, something that these guys, who give their time for free, dont have too much of. If you dont like the fact that it is not tested before being released, are you willing to do anything about it? Or are you just going to complain about it and not use it?

[Sikret]

Theres something I still dont get though, Baronius and Sikret.

No one is forcing you to use BG2 Fixpack at all. No one. Not CamDawg, not me, not DavidW, not George Bush, not Nelson Mandela. You can explicitly state in any mod you like that Fixpack is not supported, anyone who wants to use your mod should remove it from their computer and never use it again if they plan to use your mod.

Is there a big problem with that? Is there a problem with letting Fixpack do what Fixpack does, and then you just do what you do? Why do you have to keep on attacking it? IA is explicitly incompatible with it, so why bother attacking it?

We are not attacking it, we are stating plain facts. Since the developers of BG2 fixpack use their propaganda/brainwashing machine to deceive players, it's our duty to enlighten players that what they say is not true.

As for testing... Sikret, are you volunteering to donate the much needed hours to testing?

Yes, I do that for my own mod. They should do so for theirs, but they don't. Players have the right to play tested and relatively bugfree mods. This is a difference between two modding philosophies. We respect the players' right to play tested and bugfree mods; they don't. For us, there is a well-defined difference between a tester and a player.

Moreover, since their mod is supposed to be a fixpack, they should give even a more serious attention to testing it than other mods. A fixpack should not add so many new bugs to the game. At its current status, the Bg2 fixpack is best be called a "bugpack" rather than a "fixpack".