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> "Philosophical" questions, What is a cheesy method? Bug or feature?
Vuki
post Aug 11 2008, 08:33 PM
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From: Budapest, Hungary




I created this topic to discuss the "philosophical" aspect of the game. We can discuss here questions like:

- is a modification really needed or not?
- is something cheesy or cheeting or just a clever trick?
- game balance
- is an actual gap a bug or a feature?
- and so on ...

This topic will be maybe a bit too theoretical but I do not think it is a problem. We need such a place - as the discussions from the last 2-3 weeks prove it. smile.gif

This post has been edited by Vuki: Aug 11 2008, 08:34 PM


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Kerkes
post Aug 12 2008, 06:02 PM
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one other thing.. It is stated in IA readme that "this mod has some of the hardest battles......for experienced players.....etc" Personaly I don't know why Sikret even bothered with blocking possible exploits. What I mean, who actually uses stuff like that? We wanted a challenge, now we have it, and again, some of the threads are crawling with "tactics" such as: set time trap, summon something, attack it so that time trap triggers, kill everything because creatures immune to time trap may not be immune to TS from time trap if they have not triggered it themselves. YIPPPEEE! I laughed my ass of when I read this. I'd actually like that traps be removed from game, along with spell shield, but this is probably for another thread. And magic lasso from planar warden upgrade - save vs.breath at -2 or die instatly due to suffocation and being a coward:)

thieves detect illusion vs SI:div - imo yes, as a hla . I'd keep it this way for ordinary skill. Not to soon, and you don't see mages casting that often later in game anyway. It is a bit overpowered skill early in game.

I agree with Raven, there's much diveristy in IA, even some extra spell-like abilities.

This post has been edited by Kerkes: Aug 12 2008, 06:32 PM
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Raven
post Aug 12 2008, 07:38 PM
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QUOTE(Kerkes @ Aug 12 2008, 07:02 PM) *
one other thing.. It is stated in IA readme that "this mod has some of the hardest battles......for experienced players.....etc" Personaly I don't know why Sikret even bothered with blocking possible exploits. What I mean, who actually uses stuff like that?


Yes, I know what you mean. I used to wish Sikret spent the time he spends blocking exploits on making new content instead (I'm sure he wishes he could do it too). But not everyone sees the game the same way; like it or not lots of players will resort to the exploits if they are available, and if I had spent as much time on a mod as Sikret has with IA, I would probably hate to read reports glorifying cheap methods and want to block them as much as he does.


QUOTE
some of the threads are crawling with "tactics" such as: set time trap, summon something, attack it so that time trap triggers, kill everything because creatures immune to time trap may not be immune to TS from time trap if they have not triggered it themselves. YIPPPEEE! I laughed my ass of when I read this. I'd actually like that traps be removed from game, along with spell shield, but this is probably for another thread.


Agreed. Fortunately IA keeps Spell Shield (and its various bugs) largely under control.

This post has been edited by Raven: Aug 12 2008, 07:39 PM
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Posts in this topic
Vuki   "Philosophical" questions   Aug 11 2008, 08:33 PM
Baronius   Let's stir the pot then... (just kidding :D )...   Aug 11 2008, 09:25 PM
Vuki   Baronius, I have read your post and it was really ...   Aug 11 2008, 11:07 PM
Vuki   Baronius, please wait to my real first post! I...   Aug 11 2008, 09:49 PM
Baronius   Oh, forgive me! It seems I was too quick, I ha...   Aug 11 2008, 09:55 PM
Vuki   No problem. I thought I would be faster. :D   Aug 11 2008, 10:19 PM
Vuki   First of all I would like to point out that I like...   Aug 11 2008, 10:31 PM
Kerkes   Very nice topic! Bravo! IMO =not the aps...   Aug 12 2008, 08:51 AM
Sikret   casting spells from off-screen - pure cheese. I wr...   Aug 12 2008, 09:19 AM
Vuki   Very true. This answer is valid for the case of ab...   Aug 12 2008, 11:10 AM
Vuki   Very nice topic! Bravo! Thanks. :) No, I ...   Aug 12 2008, 11:04 AM
Sikret   For example enemies can reduce your fire resistanc...   Aug 12 2008, 11:17 AM
Vuki   No humanoid enemy has such an ability. Actually, o...   Aug 12 2008, 11:41 AM
Sikret   No humanoid enemy has such an ability. Actually, o...   Aug 12 2008, 12:03 PM
Vuki   They don't do any such thing. It's an invi...   Aug 12 2008, 12:14 PM
Sikret   They don't do any such thing. It's an invi...   Aug 12 2008, 12:45 PM
Vuki   This is not true (except for vert particular monst...   Aug 12 2008, 11:49 AM
DavidW   Why the hell would it be not fair? This is a fair ...   Aug 12 2008, 11:41 AM
Vuki   It's basically a game-engine issue. The script...   Aug 12 2008, 11:53 AM
lroumen   I'll join in for some musing. I've read ...   Aug 12 2008, 09:26 AM
Vuki   Pt 2. Don't use game editors I use it sometime...   Aug 12 2008, 11:25 AM
Kerkes   A dwarven sorc has +5 to saves unlike human, elf ...   Aug 12 2008, 10:45 PM
Sikret   Don't you consider Time trap to be an "am...   Aug 13 2008, 09:14 AM
lroumen   Can this be added to the debate? Cheesy foes...   Aug 12 2008, 09:59 AM
Raven   Prebuffing foes (Forcespell) I don't fully fav...   Aug 12 2008, 10:27 AM
Sikret   Prebuffing foes (Forcespell) I don't fully fav...   Aug 12 2008, 10:59 AM
Vuki   Cheesy foes! Prebuffing foes (Forcespell) I d...   Aug 12 2008, 11:29 AM
Giden   Hi guys, I'm quite new to the boards but not n...   Aug 12 2008, 11:24 AM
Vuki   It is the previously promised post. I wanted to wr...   Aug 12 2008, 01:25 PM
Kerkes   @Vuki I REALLY am looking forward to your post on...   Aug 12 2008, 05:26 PM
Vuki   @Vuki I REALLY am looking forward to your post on...   Aug 12 2008, 07:36 PM
Kerkes   one other thing.. It is stated in IA readme that ...   Aug 12 2008, 06:02 PM
Raven   one other thing.. It is stated in IA readme that ...   Aug 12 2008, 07:38 PM
Sikret   [quote name='Kerkes' post='34482' date='Aug 12 200...   Aug 22 2008, 01:39 PM
Vuki   one other thing.. It is stated in IA readme that ...   Aug 12 2008, 07:43 PM
Raven   I do not know what you are talking about here. Can...   Aug 12 2008, 07:51 PM
Vuki   Small spoilers for this battle... Ok, I noticed it...   Aug 12 2008, 08:10 PM
Sikret   The thief "detect illusion" ability is a...   Aug 12 2008, 08:01 PM
Vuki   If the ability was a plain divination spell, we wo...   Aug 12 2008, 08:19 PM
Kerkes   @ Vuki well, I suppose Raven knows what I was aim...   Aug 12 2008, 08:42 PM
Kerkes   @Vuki just read your reply on ambushes and such H...   Aug 12 2008, 08:51 PM
Sikret   Enemies can set an ambush, because the arena is th...   Aug 12 2008, 09:11 PM
lroumen   lroumen, how much of the mod have you actually pla...   Aug 13 2008, 09:23 AM
Sikret   2. Stealing from shops (though of course selling i...   Aug 13 2008, 09:41 AM
Vuki   You cannot implement this because each character h...   Aug 13 2008, 10:51 AM
LZJ   Hi Iroumen! For your point on stealing quest ...   Aug 13 2008, 09:37 AM
lroumen   That's true. You have to put in a lot of effor...   Aug 13 2008, 09:50 AM
lroumen   Concerning area abuse. I'd like to hear more...   Aug 13 2008, 10:03 AM
Sikret   IA will never be "perfect" in the strict...   Aug 13 2008, 11:50 AM
Vuki   IA is progressing and becoming better and better w...   Aug 13 2008, 04:54 PM
Kerkes   @ Sikret I was referring to the fact that you...   Aug 13 2008, 11:59 AM
coaster   On the discussion re: time traps. Perhaps time tr...   Aug 14 2008, 10:07 AM
Kerkes   IMO, mages should be more powerful than any other ...   Aug 14 2008, 10:28 AM
SpellStorm   I've played this mod for some time now, and I ...   Aug 14 2008, 01:40 PM
Kerkes   I agree with that "wasted time on cheating...   Aug 22 2008, 02:53 PM
Kerkes   On the discussion about abusing area structure: I ...   Aug 26 2008, 07:59 PM
Vuki   As far as I know liches are immune to 1-5 level sp...   Sep 4 2008, 08:06 AM
LZJ   Hmmm... I don't know if it's the same as i...   Sep 6 2008, 10:23 AM
Sikret   Item no.10 in the "cheat and cheap" docu...   Jan 23 2009, 07:43 PM
matti   It's not a cheat at all. But giving creature r...   Jan 23 2009, 07:50 PM
Raven   It's not a cheat at all. But giving creature r...   Jan 26 2009, 10:34 AM
nataben1314   This is distressing indeed... I think that by the ...   Jan 23 2009, 10:42 PM
Sikret   Let me quote from my own post again: I think th...   Jan 23 2009, 11:11 PM
Baronius   This is distressing indeed... I think that by the ...   Jan 24 2009, 12:23 AM
Sikret   Their reasoning is usually the following: (1) ...   Jan 24 2009, 12:58 AM
nataben1314   nataben1314, thanks for keeping your criticism wit...   Jan 24 2009, 06:30 AM
Sikret   the idea that any ability that can even in princip...   Jan 24 2009, 02:02 PM
Baronius   It is interesting that when you justify your decis...   Jan 24 2009, 01:10 AM
Hoppy   Improved Anvil requires a lot of patience and time...   Jan 24 2009, 03:27 AM
Baronius   nataben1314: let's forget the past then, now y...   Jan 24 2009, 05:09 PM
lroumen   My condolences to all cheaters and cheesy players...   Jan 26 2009, 10:19 AM
DavidW   I've no idea whether the timestop trick counts...   Jan 26 2009, 11:58 AM
shadan   I dont't think Time Stop+melee is a cheat, so ...   Jan 26 2009, 01:28 PM
Shaitan   Yes I gotta agree with Sikret and others: TS reall...   Jan 26 2009, 01:29 PM
Sikret   My reasons for calling timestop-melee "a chea...   Jan 26 2009, 02:58 PM
Ardanis   Hi all. I believe TS differs from one edition to ...   Jan 26 2009, 07:39 PM
Daulmakan   BG2 spells are based on AD&D 2E... I'd s...   Jan 27 2009, 03:47 AM
Baronius   :) Considering the arguments against it, it is not...   Jan 27 2009, 04:02 AM
Sikret   Yeah, I'd say that the "act freely" ...   Jan 27 2009, 04:44 AM
nataben1314   I talk to sikret in PM and he says I am OK to stil...   Jan 27 2009, 03:36 PM
Zarathustra   IT just occurred to me that using missile weapons ...   Jan 27 2009, 06:24 PM
Sikret   Yes, Zarathustra! Once the timestop's dura...   Jan 27 2009, 07:05 PM
nataben1314   As you know I am against this change but I am curi...   Jan 28 2009, 12:05 AM
Sikret   As you know I am against this change but I am curi...   Jan 28 2009, 12:40 AM
nataben1314   The spell description says that you cannot even ta...   Jan 28 2009, 12:50 AM
Sikret   As I said, I don't think that spellcasting dur...   Jan 28 2009, 12:58 AM
nataben1314   I have read your posts, but I don't think they...   Jan 28 2009, 01:07 AM
Sikret   Yes, I haven't based my reasoning merely on th...   Jan 28 2009, 01:21 AM
nataben1314   So if your reasoning for this is conceptual, yet y...   Jan 28 2009, 03:15 PM
LZJ   Well, I think that Sikret's concept of Timesto...   Jan 28 2009, 03:31 PM
Sikret   Thanks, LZJ! @nataben1314 It seems that you ...   Jan 28 2009, 05:28 PM
Mohina   I think this is becoming a bit of a play on words,...   Jan 28 2009, 05:30 PM
Gorwath   I don't know if this could be implemented in t...   Jan 28 2009, 10:41 PM
Sikret   I don't know if this could be implemented in t...   Jan 28 2009, 10:58 PM
crunk   There's one thing that I do a lot, and I was w...   Feb 8 2009, 06:10 AM
Sikret   Yes, I'm afraid, "hit&run" (or r...   Feb 8 2009, 06:37 AM
crunk   Ok I'll stop running around just to waste mele...   Feb 11 2009, 09:36 PM
Sikret   Also, is it cheesy to cast SI:abj just to waste an...   Feb 11 2009, 10:13 PM
Kerkes   @ Crunk You're right about use of SI. From my...   Feb 11 2009, 10:04 PM
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