"Philosophical" questions, What is a cheesy method? Bug or feature? Options

[Vuki]

I created this topic to discuss the "philosophical" aspect of the game. We can discuss here questions like:

- is a modification really needed or not?
- is something cheesy or cheeting or just a clever trick?
- game balance
- is an actual gap a bug or a feature?
- and so on ...

This topic will be maybe a bit too theoretical but I do not think it is a problem. We need such a place - as the discussions from the last 2-3 weeks prove it.

This post has been edited by Vuki: Aug 11 2008, 08:34 PM

[Kerkes]

@Vuki

I REALLY am looking forward to your post on final IA battle

@other people visiting this great thread

I do belive that enemies should have abilities you do not have. Since you do also. No enemy has "conatct with nature" I believe. More important, no enemy has fully functional several billions of braincells to use. Take that noble djinni guy. Imagine him without his extra ability, and your guys running about with 100+fire resistance, add red dragon plate, helm, two rings of fire res etc., than even remove magic won't touch you. And I do believe he doesn't cast remove magic (even if he does, you can have mages take it). What fun is he then?

for prebuffing, I find that a bit annoying too, but have spell deflection, turning and SI in quickspell slots (usually far more useful then stoneskin). I'd personaly hate enemies standind behind golems (happened to me once in sewers hidden door from which you get key from tazok). Played that battle for 1min and reloaded because the cleric and figh/mage were beating me so so badly, not to mention that it's a BAD thing to be "emotionalized" in front of a golem.

I found battle with Draco to be as fun as it is especially because you have to think who to protect, how, who should rely on saves etc with no prebuffs. It really adds different flavour to battles, and I'm sure that any other player who has played the battle agrees with me. As for getting dispelled with the drow...it's supposed to be an ambush. Add some RPG with that fact, it can be a very fun and exciting battle. Insane, yes, but CAN be fun if you get really lucky. It's not an ambush for anyone who's ever played it, but if it can be simulated, I find this to be the best way. Imagine them teleporting around you with those spiders at a completely random point in that area. This way you know where they are, can memorize Chaotic and free action spells, use optimal equipment etc. Haven't you ever backstabbed a yuan-ti mage before he finishes true sight? Is that also cheese then? IMO, no. I saw him while invisible, he smells something is going on and starts casting, my figh/thief is a bloodthirsty no-good-dooer, and the lizard is gone! I'd say the same thing would go for drow - I think they should know when a party armed to the teeth enters underdark.. It is their home, anyway, and it is supposed to be dangerous, not like vanilla "walk in the myconid park". Loth could probably dispel your buffs if they asked nicely:). Besides, you wouldn't even feel that dispel hurting you if you haven't buffed yourself. So, who is cheating:) the oh so mighty band of a 15.level Bhaalspawn or those filthy drow?! Just joking, but I hope you see my point.
I've given some tought about the idea of no pre-buffs. IMO It would make most of the battles a walk-over (if not ridiculusly easy), and who ever has more mages with improved alcatry wins.
As for IA being more tactical/rpg - I don't know, really. It has both. A read lot of new quests will be added to IA6 so there will probably be much more RPGaming for druid lovers, tree-huggers and other such beasties.
All praise Korgan!!!:)

This post has been edited by Kerkes: Aug 12 2008, 06:24 PM

[Vuki]

@Vuki

I REALLY am looking forward to your post on final IA battle

I am also eager to see it.

I do belive that enemies should have abilities you do not have. Since you do also. No enemy has "conatct with nature" I believe. More important, no enemy has fully functional several billions of braincells to use. Take that noble djinni guy. Imagine him without his extra ability, and your guys running about with 100+fire resistance, add red dragon plate, helm, two rings of fire res etc., than even remove magic won't touch you. And I do believe he doesn't cast remove magic (even if he does, you can have mages take it). What fun is he then?

Yes, I agree with you. Luckily I did not say that enemies should not have such an abilities. This is great and makes the game more interesting. For example the web lariat effect of the spiders is a real fun to watch and I enjoy it very much. The noble djinni fire resistance reducing effect also made my first meeting with him harder and more interesting. This is ok, it is in the vanilla game and it is nice that in IA there are much more similar effects.

I found battle with Draco to be as fun as it is especially because you have to think who to protect, how, who should rely on saves etc with no prebuffs. It really adds different flavour to battles, and I'm sure that any other player who has played the battle agrees with me. As for getting dispelled with the drow... it's supposed to be an ambush. Add some RPG with that fact, it can be a very fun and exciting battle. Insane, yes, but CAN be fun if you get really lucky. It's not an ambush for anyone who's ever played it, but if it can be simulated, I find this to be the best way.

Yes, that is the point. It is an ambush and it is very challenging. Maybe too challenging. But you catch the point! Enemies can ambush you. They did not do it too much times but they do it simetimes. This is a tactical manoveur. Now, the question is how can you ambush the enemies in IA? It is really a question, so I am waiting for the answers. BTW, there are other ambushes even in the vanilla game. For example the final fight with Jon is an ambush: he invokes other creatures while you are not able to attack him. (Comment: again this and other similar situations is not a problem. This is great and good to have). So, the question, how can you ambush your enemy in the game?