IA 5.0 experiences by saros, [Topic split by Baronius] Options

[saros]

Editor's foreword (by Sikret):

Since we have thoroughly tested most of the things saros reports in this thread and have found most of them totally false and misleading, we would like to emphasize that the content of this thread is not reliable and can even be misleading for new players. It's worth noting however that none of the things he has written (not even one single word) has been deleted. We could of course delete the entire topic, because we are not supposed to publish false and forged reports about Improved Anvil, but we decided to keep it as an evidence to show how the game should NOT be played for future reference.

saros is playing the game in an illegitimate way with lots of cheats. Many of the things he reports are totally false and can be misleading for other players. So, those who want to read reliable information about IA, should not waste their time reading this thread, because it can affect their mentality about the mod in an invalid and misleading way. As he has admitted in one of his own posts, he is just playing the mod in order to prove that he can win it with a solo character even if it means using cheap methods and cheats.

Even worse than his cheats are his lies. He has reported several nonexistent bugs; for example, each time he fails to win a battle, he retorts by saying that the battle was bugged and such things. Improved Anvil's testing team has thoroughly examined all of his alleged bug reports and has found all of them to be false and fake. Some of them can be interpreted as mistakes of an unskilled player who doesn't observe the events carefully, but some others are so obvious that they can only be interpreted as deliberate and intentional lies.

The best way to tell a lie and make it believable is to tell a big lie and then say "everyone is welcome to test it for himself". This is exactly what saros does. Of course, everyone is indeed welcome to test what he reports and see that he is lying (as we did), but saros is counting on psychological effect of his words and knows that most players won't actually test what he says. I don't really understand what motivates him and what is his purpose of writing so many lies. As I said, most of the lies he writes can't really be interpreted as simple mistakes; they are so obvious that can only be intentional. To see a concrete example of his lies click here. Examples of his lies and false reports are really numerous, but I don't have any extra time to waste on composing a complete list of them.

Of course, at first, we decided to help saros play the mod in a legitimate way in a friendly tone, but he kept refusing to listen.

Cheaters never prosper. True winners never cheat. Liars are even worse than cheaters.

As a newer and recent discovery, saros had actually more than one nickname(s) here at BWL and had cross-posted some of his lies with another nickname as well. When someone is not honest, he is not honest in many ways.

==============================================


Hi again.

I'd also like to share my experience so far with the fifth version of the IA mod and I will describe some methods which may prove helpful to all. This is my intention. Some of the methods are pure cheese by certain player's standard, but none of them is cheating. And I have an absolutely official installation of the required only components in the right order, with the exception of an added Happy tweak from the EoU mod. According to Sikret, it's no big deal.

My personal opinion is that everyone is welcome to play the mod as he/she wants. With this I mean with or without cheesy methods. I personally do not like cheating.

The experience I've collected so far concerns primarily the first hard steps in Athkatla, and some methods to create a higher level party.

In Chateau Irenicus, it is good for the PC to play solo through the dungeon. It would be immensely helpful if the PC is some sort of wizard or thief, because these classes offer an additional xp boost (from traps, locks and scrolls).
If the PC is not a thief, then he/she may consider joining Yoshimo, but only for the traps and locks in the dungeon, meaning that Yoshi should be avoided until everything else is cleared. Avoiding him is easily done via Invisibility, Hide In Shadows or Sanctuary.
After the PC has cleared the way to the exit, he then may start to collect NPCs: first Minsc, then(after temporarily disbanding Minsc) Jaheira, and finally Yoshimo. This way, the joining NPCs will be with a starting xp of 161 000. If an NPC is joined right away after the start of the game, his or her xp will be only 90 000.
This way, not only your PC will get more overall xp in chapter 1, but also the joined NPCs will have 71 000 free xp points gained.

SPOILER!

If you want to gain some extra xp, leave one Mephit portal active and kill spawning mephits. Sure, they offer only 420 xp points, but their spawning is endless if the portal is alive.
If your PC is a Cleric/Wizard of some kind, then combining Animate Dead and Invisibility cast on the Ice Mephit Portal will provide you with some free time to read a book or watch a movie while your PC gains xp. Skeletons are immune to cold damage, they stay 8 hours, and if they do not see the Invisible mephit portal, then they don't attack it, but instead attack only spawning Ice Mephits

After going out, and collecting the quest xp reward for chapter 1, it would be wise to kick everyone out of the party and temporarily play solo. The logic in this is, that most of the new NPCs will join a high level character also at higher levels(up to 1.2 million xp for a joining NPC).

I suggest completing the Circus tent for the xp and spell scrolls, and afterwards, sleeping over in order to wait for the first two night encounters. As we all know, these contain gems, gold and several spell scrolls, namely Find Familiar, Spell Thrust, Stoneskin, Minor Spell Turning, Disintegrate and Contingency. All of these are useful, most are qute rare and hard to come by.

The most dangerous part of the solo starting strategy are the first two random city encounters, and especially the first one, Suna Seni. I've had experience with her party with a low level solo F/M/T and F/M/C. It's easy for a F/M/C to win this battle with the proper domination/disabling spells. It's harder for a F/M/T since the two actually active classes in the battle are the fighter and mage, the thief does absolutely nothing. Here is my experience:

SPOILER!

Suna Seni and her goons have various immunities and protection spells running. The most effective strategy so far was casting a Greater Malinson, followed by a couple of Web spells. The big problem here is the lack of spell slots at lower levels. My F/M/T entered this fight equipped with two +3 long swords, Stoneskined, Improved Invisible, with two Rings of Protection equipped, with Spirit Armor, Shield, Blur, Pro Evil, Mirror Image, with Frost Giant strength potion consumed, with Draw Upon Holy Might and also Hasted. This can be done the following way:

Creating two +3 swords, memorizing Stoneskin, rest.
Casting Stoneskin, memorizing Spirit Armor and Greater Malinson, rest.
Casting Spirit Armor, consuming an Oil of Speed, a Potion of Frost Giant Strength(from Ribald), casting the rest of the buffs in proper order. An Improved Invisibility should be activated from a scroll on top of all of this.

When the battle started, my PC disrupted the cleric's True Sight spell by engaging him in melee. Afterwards, I began to circle around in order to avoid the melee fighters. My AC was -14 anyway due to buffs. Afterwards I activated Web. Web has a chance to catch everyone, including Suna Seni, but the cleric and the mage are immune to its effects. No matter. The cleric falls in a couple of rounds. The mage cannot survive long in melee, even with his Mirror Image and Stoneskin. But I found it more convenient to carry two additional scrolls of Web and one of Improved Invisibility, just in case anything goes wrong. And furthermore, it is good to focus on Suna Seni while she's webbed, since she dies in a couple of rounds, and afterwards to concentrate on the enemy wizard.

The PC can save without failure vs the web effects while his Improved Invisibility is still active.

When the cleric, mage and Suna Seni are dead, the rest of the fight is relatively easy.

My third level slots were filled with Fireball spells, which work great on malinsoned webbed enemies: they're like sitting ducks.

The second random city encounter is much easier thanx to the Breach spell obtained from the corpse of the first encounter's enemy wizard, and fewer enemy fighters.

There are a few unmodded quests in Athkatla. No need to rush to Trademeet.

The relatively free xp which may be collected(apart from spell scrolls for an arcane caster):

Copper Coronet: fight with Amalas
Outside Copper Coronet: fight with Corvale
Find out what happened to Montaron: catching the bird without completing the quest(yet). Xzar may be looted for his scrolls and gems. Spectral Harpists may be killed for extra xp.
The Graveyard quests plus all of the monsters in the crypts, except for the Spider Lair.
The kidnappers who buried Tirdir(bridge)
Mae'var's quest, without getting the quest xp reward from Renal.
The illithium ore quest.
(revised)
The skinner murders.

Note: It is not necessary to collect the Reputation rewards from such quests. Remember that by donating gold to a temple you can raise your reputation up to 16, and afterwards collect reputation reward from both this and the Circus Tent quest.

SPOILER!

There are other ways to gain a lot of xp and gold, and spell scrolls, and green protection scrolls, and potions, ammo or even some enchanted items:

Looting amnish guards who interrupt the party's rest on the streets of Athkatla: a decent hasted thief can do it. These guards carry sometimes valuable spell scrolls.

Dropping your reputation to 3 or lower(despised) and starting to kill Amnish patrols which appear. Those come with a standard equipment and some random item slots. The standard equipment includes five full plate mails per patrol, which are worth from six to nine thousand gp when sold on the market.
The random item slots may contain one of the following:

1. A random magical item. Those are occasionally of +1 enchantment, but there are exceptions, like Short Bow +2 or even a Spear +3.
2. A potion. The potions may be: of Healing, Oil of Resurgence, Potion of Vitality, Potion of Strength, Potion of Invisibility, Potion of Fortitude, Potion of Agility, Elixir of Health.
3. A random jewel or a small sum of gold. The most valuable gem that may be obtained this way is the Black Opal, while the most valuable necklace is the laeral's tear.
4. A spell scroll. Here is the (almost) full list:

Magic Missile
Shield
Burning Hands
Protection from Evil
Shocking Grasp
Color Spray
Minor Spell Turning
Monster Summoning III
(these low level scrolls can be dropped far more seldom than the higher level scrolls)

Summon Nishruu
Carrion Summons
Prot from Magic Energy
Globe of Invulnerability
True Sight(very seldom)
Mislead(very seldom)
Death Spell
Tenser's Transformation
Spell Sequencer
Spell Turning
Sphere of Chaos
Summon Harkeashar/Djinni/Efreeti
Mordenkainen's sword
Protection from Elements
Ruby Ray of Reversal
Khelben's Warding Whip
Control Undead
Cacofiend
Spell Trigger
Protection from Energy
Pierce Shield
ADHW
Incendiary Cloud
Tenser's partial
Summon Fiend
Spell Trap

Green scrolls:
Cursed scroll of Petrification
Prot from Cold
Prot from Fire
Prot from Poison
Prot from Level Drain

Killing Amnish guards may continue as much as one wants. This way may be collected free xp, gold and scrolls.

There is a price, however. After the first few won battles with such patrols, a bug appears, and arcane spellcasting on the streets does not trigger the appearance of Cowled wizard patrols. I've tested it. So no fight is possible with the Cowled wizards after this exploit is deployed. And since they carry some valuable scrolls like Improved haste, this is a waste somehow.

[Ryel ril Ers]

"I know your post is written in a good intention."

Yes, i didn't want to harm you, i use some harm sentence, so exuse me. I only worry about your game experience. You install a tactical mod, so you wanted challange, but the exploit kill the challange. If you feel fun in this way, than i am glad, but i worry that you cancel your game because it is too easy. You meet challange in this way too but you must wait a lot to gain it. (Try the shade lord or the troll mound that are enough hard your character now).

I don't know Athakala how big, but a big city in the middle ages are between 20000 and 120000. So the 2000 is not too high for a very big fantasy city. I only want to say, they are very dummy, they must instead attack in a very big groups after the first tries. (That could a very good battle when 50 soldier and 8 mages attack your party)

Your infos are useful, because there are some exploit what musthave fixes. I also post lots of cheese methods (i try lot of things first because i worked one year at a programmer company as a tester so this is in my vain, after i test some method, i find the most effective what is cool for my party, and yes i love the emotion, that is the best thing when the enemy lay on the ground helpless in front my wild mage feet), but i didn't get any thanks for it (but there was some idea what thanked by sikret), only get you are cheeser because i always try cheeser methods, so i understand you.

EDIT: I read your posts in the Anvil forum. What with your 6 member party, do you use cheeser methods?

You have a mistake, don't needed fix all of the bugs and exploits. The players must controls own actions when the game allow cheating. Why? Because you gain more game experience and fun if you use clean methods. If you cheat (i don't want to do difference between cheese and cheat, because you use bug and implementation errors of the game like exploits, cheese or debugging options like the cluaconsole) you destroy your own game, and once you bore the game because it will be too easy and if you have successes, it won't as sweet as play clean and win.

This post has been edited by Ryel ril Ers: Aug 3 2008, 10:23 PM

[saros]

EDIT: I read your posts in the Anvil forum. What with your 6 member party, do you use cheeser methods?

You have a mistake, don't needed fix all of the bugs and exploits. The players must controls own actions when the game allow cheating. Why? Because you gain more game experience and fun if you use clean methods. If you cheat (i don't want to do difference between cheese and cheat, because you use bug and implementation errors of the game like exploits, cheese or debugging options like the cluaconsole) you destroy your own game, and once you bore the game because it will be too easy and if you have successes, it won't as sweet as play clean and win.

First of all, I started indeed a six-person party game, but this game is very slow progressing, since I'm paying much more attention to my solo game. And once again: I don't use exploits in the six-person party game. I use them in my solo game, because everyone knows or seems to think that IA 5.0 is impossible to win with a solo character, if played by the mod's rules. I intend to prove that it may be very hard to do, but it's possible. A challenge, of a sort, for which I need a proper preparation.

You are of course absolutely correct that there will always be bugs and exploits, and it's up to each player to decide whether to use them or not. This is doable even in an original unpatched unmodded version of the game. However, there are some people who don't know about these exploits or what can be gained from them;I grant them the freedom of choice, I describe the exploits to grant them this knowledge. What will they do afterwards with it is none of my concern.

I don't use CLUAconsole. Nor shadowkeeper. I use the weaknesses of the mod itself, i.e. what's INSIDE a normally installed IA game.

Now to my recent adventures.

Since I seem to have forgotten my CD3 and 4 when I began my vacation, I decided to clear all areas available on CD2: Slums(without the Sphere, no way to reach Valygar), City Gates, Graveyard, Bridge District, Waukeen's promenade, Docks and Government district, and finally, Watcher's keep. Fortunately, I had taken the first steps of the Mae'var's quest and had completed the illithium ore quest and had begun the Dawn Ring quest.

I again deployed the Amnish Guard killing, and brought my levels to 30/25/34, for more HLAs and the maximum 9-th level wizard spells(and more powerful Remove Magic too).

Afterwards, I acquired again 3 million gp from sold full plate mails, and the city had almost nothing more to offer for sale.

Then I completed the Mae'var's quest, which was altogether unmodded, with the exception of the fact that Rayic Gethrac had a nice starting contingency, including SI: D, so I guess that he will not be as easy to a very low-level party, but will be doable.

Before this quest is started, it is wise to buy everything you like from the Temple of Talos, because after stealing the necklace, this will be impossible. Inside this temple are sold not only the regular temple stuff, but also some relatively powerful items.

Before the quest is finished, it is good if you've bought everything you need from Gorch. Gorch has a bugged slot in his shop inventory, this particular slot contains a Mace +2(seems like he has unlimited). Same kind of slot is present in Ribald's shoppe, that one containing a Ring of Animal Friendship currently.

After joining Edwin, I was unhappy to see that he didn't receive any quest xp reward and joined at 220 000 xp or something. I thought that according to level of my PC, all further joining NPCs should be with 1 200 000 xp!

I dismissed Edwin and killed Mae'var alone. And got my quest reward from Renal.

Afterwards, I decided to kill Renal Bloodscalp. I knew(from the vanilla game) that he had Boots of Speed. But I also knew that Arkanis Gath is protecting him with an uber weapon. Fortunately, the Uber weapon(as i remembered) was a sword of +3 enchantment. So I cast Improved mantle and attacked Renal. No Arkanis Gath appeared, and what is more strange, the guards outside and the thieves on the first level of this hold didn't go hostile afterwards. This maybe means that I could join Aran even if I killed Renal?

No matter. I collected my prize from the body of Renal and departed to join Bodhi.

Note: I am totally unaware of the modifications made to vampires in Bodhi's lair. All I've heard is that Tanova in the graveyard is made a lot more tougher.
But I am positive that the thieves are not modded in any way. With one exception: the thief/mages which appear on the first and second level in the Hold(NOT in the basement). Those mages open with a starting ImprovedInvisibility/SI:D/Mirror Image contingency, but they are of relatively low level.
I also carried the last battle with Aran out under three Time traps, so my reports on this one aren't 100% helpful.

Anyway, when I joined Bodhi, I was able to obtain a lot of enchanted shortswords and crossbows +2, some leather armor +3, an elven chain +1, a ring of Djinni Summoning, several Cloaks of Protection +1(from dead mage/thiefs), but unfortunately, no Ring of Lock Picking(seems to be obtainable only if one joins Aran), the Rifthome Axe +3 was also in my possession. This all is easy treasure, not to mention the fact that the Improved Mace of Disruption is also very quickly assembled this way, and all the treasures in Bodhi's coffer are also available for looting(several gems as I remember).

Besides, once I joined Bodhi, the thieves' hold was renewed, meaning all chests/containers became reloaded. This way I acquired some additional potions and gold, and an additional diamond.

If the vampires are indeed greatly modified, then joining sides with Bodhi should be much more easier and much more profitable for any player. The drawback is that this way, fewer overall experience is gained.

After obtaining the Amulet of Power from Aran's body, I faced the City Gates' Grave lich.

SPOILER!

I came inside fully buffed. In order to have 5 SI in my fifth level slots, I consumed 2 potions of Acid resistance(bought from temples) and 2 potions of Insulation(amnish guard fights random item reward) before the start of the fight.

What I discovered the hard way, is that this lich's attacks are considered to be of more than +3 enchantment(although the lich uses the Rod of Terror +3), because my Improved mantles weren't helpful in any way. I reloaded(but only once) because of this.

So I had to rely on PFMW. Too bad I had only 3 of those: one memorized, one in Contingency(triggered immediately) and one in Spell Trigger. No matter, I had a plan.

The lich's ruby rays managed to strip me of everything except my Globe of Invulnerability and my SI: Abjuration. This was achieved with the help of an additionally re-cast Spell turning, since the lich had five Ruby Rays.
I also Ruby Rayed him twice, to bring down his own SI: A. Afterwards I tried a Spell Sequencer with three remove magic spells, which were absolutely useless.
In between spellcasting, I attacked the lich with my Boomerang Dagger.

The Globe was essential, since the lich released its spell sequencer afterwards, containing Greater Malinson, which was ineffective.

Afterwards, the lich began approaching me in melee, and even wasted 2 of his ProMW(when approached in melee, it will often activate one). I patiently waited for its ProMW to end, and in the meantime, renewed my SI: A. I also summoned a Planetar, upon whom the lich cast Grave Silence, and they engaged each other in melee.
I continued hurling my Boomerang dagger at the lich(the lich is immune to missile type damage but the dagger still helped remove its stoneskins), and even interrupted a couple of its spells.
The lich released several fingers of death, prismatic sprays and Bigby's crushing hands, against which I successfully saved
The lich Timestopped before I was able to activate my ProMW. Fortunately, the lich had just killed my Planetar when the TS ended.

I have to mention that the lich had wasted at least 2 more ProMW in its fight against the Planetar.

I approached the lich several times, and since it didn't activate any ProMW, and its Fireshield had expired, I cast my Spell Trigger(containing ProMW), and charged in melee, with ImOD main and Daystar off. Seems like this lich was immune to ImOD's effects, since I didn't see any save vs death made in the dialogue box. I also renewed my SI: A while under ProMW, and cast DuHM and Energy Blades too(with Daystar off). Then my ProMW ended, I retreated and began hurling Energy Blades at the lich with my Critical Strikes. The Daystar off-hand also hit the enemy from a distance while I held the discs(a well-known issue, which had never been fixed, in any mod or fixpack). The lich was immune to the second portion of the Daystar' s damage, as well as to the Energy Blades' lightning damage, but the physical damage was enough, and I didn't even had to cast my last Energy Blades.

Afterwards, I was able to assemble my first weapon +4, the Grandmaster's Dream

I also assembled a ring of protection +3 and a cloak of protection +3.

I killed Mencar's group, and since I used Time traps and they were of relatively low level compared to my own, I will not describe the battle. Just one thing: Mencar carries several valuable potions, which he consumes immediately. For a low-level party, I'd suggest that the party's thief should pickpocket them while Mencar is still neutral, before the fight had begun.