Compatibility of TS v6.11, and general problems, [Topic split by Vlad, move by Baronius] Options

[cmorgan]

Currently reviewing TS v6.11 code alongside DR code to look for what could be causing hassles. ETA on summary is 6 weeks unless I am sidetracked (plenty of stuff going on) - please feel free to drop off specific problems on G3 or PPG or SHS boards.

(IA compatibility is a completely different question, please see the readme in that mod for more information).

While each of us in the IE community are allowed their own opinions, I think a constructive way of addressing those questions would to be to go to the NPC mod makers in question, and ask the same question. My current Tutu and BG games run with a large mod loadout for testing, and they all work extremely well, including several BWL mods (TGCep1 and Herbs and potions, and Jastey's Slime Quest on Tutu). At SHS, there is a section of MegaModders who successfully handle various versions of BP/BGT/etc., incorporating TS and NEJ, etc, on the same installs as many other NPCs from PPG and G3, et al.

I understand the frustration of two opposing philosophies of modding, but I am afraid that the choice of words indicating that development of G3 mods makes them widely incompatible is neither accurate nor fair. Nor is the development process a short one; widespread testing among several platforms, with anywhere between a handful of beta testers and an entire set of 12 or so folks specifically providing testing and feedback (depending on the mod, of course). Cooperation among teams of coders and an open policy of producing joint public code and testing it, then writing up tutorials on it and updating it with feedback allows modders access to many helpers, making coding review a strong and vibrant process.

The way to get folks to be able to identify the specific incompatibilities and give information on tracking the difficulty down is to experience the problem, get a savegame, and write up what the specific dialogue/action was that was taken. Then the modders in question can attempt to isolate and fix whatever is causing the trouble (assuming they wish to be friendly enough to help eachother out).

[Baronius]

People often choose such "arbitrary" borderlines in real life as well. While such a "line" doesn't have a strictly determined "position", common sense allows us to make a difference between things. In other words, the line doesn't have an exact position (it "moves within a small range").

As it was said numerous times, this "fixing ALL bugs" mania just urges G3FP developers to extend their "fixpack" with more and more arbitrary changes that aren't fixes.

A bug usually decreases playing experience. However, lots of "fixes" of G3FP aren't bugfixes. They may correct things which may appear illogical to the FP developers (and thus their "fix" increases their playing experience), but for other players, these may decrease -- and not increase -- the playing experience. This is why strongly questionable changes should not be in the same mod as FIXES.

In other words, the problem with the terribly subjective "bugs" is that while someone has an argument why it's a bug, someone else has a counter-argument, why it's not a bug. G3FP follows the philosophy "if there is any argument to call it a bug, let's do so". (On the other hand, no one will question that a spear with a club animation -- or an item that causes a crash -- is a bug.)

Lots of players are misled, because they believe all the propaganda; that "it's *the* standard fixpack which supersedes all previous ones", and it contains "hundreds of new fixes" -- while in the reality, each G3FP release contains critical bugs (everyone can check its forum for evidence). "Hundreds of new fixes", this is my "favourite" -- you FP developers, are trying to force your mod into each player's installation, no matter at what cost. (If there was a minimal level of modesty in your intentions, you and your supporters wouldn't keep harassing Improved Anvil and wouldn't keep spreading malicious information about IA, Tortured Souls and ANY other mod that doesn't play according to your rules.)

The fact that G3FP may break other mods (the accurate reasons were already detailed several times) just makes the whole situation even worse.

If its developers refuse to reorganize this "fixpack", they will have to undertake the consequences in the long run.