Compatibility of TS v6.11, and general problems, [Topic split by Vlad, move by Baronius] Options

[cmorgan]

Currently reviewing TS v6.11 code alongside DR code to look for what could be causing hassles. ETA on summary is 6 weeks unless I am sidetracked (plenty of stuff going on) - please feel free to drop off specific problems on G3 or PPG or SHS boards.

(IA compatibility is a completely different question, please see the readme in that mod for more information).

While each of us in the IE community are allowed their own opinions, I think a constructive way of addressing those questions would to be to go to the NPC mod makers in question, and ask the same question. My current Tutu and BG games run with a large mod loadout for testing, and they all work extremely well, including several BWL mods (TGCep1 and Herbs and potions, and Jastey's Slime Quest on Tutu). At SHS, there is a section of MegaModders who successfully handle various versions of BP/BGT/etc., incorporating TS and NEJ, etc, on the same installs as many other NPCs from PPG and G3, et al.

I understand the frustration of two opposing philosophies of modding, but I am afraid that the choice of words indicating that development of G3 mods makes them widely incompatible is neither accurate nor fair. Nor is the development process a short one; widespread testing among several platforms, with anywhere between a handful of beta testers and an entire set of 12 or so folks specifically providing testing and feedback (depending on the mod, of course). Cooperation among teams of coders and an open policy of producing joint public code and testing it, then writing up tutorials on it and updating it with feedback allows modders access to many helpers, making coding review a strong and vibrant process.

The way to get folks to be able to identify the specific incompatibilities and give information on tracking the difficulty down is to experience the problem, get a savegame, and write up what the specific dialogue/action was that was taken. Then the modders in question can attempt to isolate and fix whatever is causing the trouble (assuming they wish to be friendly enough to help eachother out).

[Baronius]

Well, with all that explanation I've given here and in other topics, I just wanted to make it clear that certain modders often use "prejudice" or "personal preference" too when they don't understand the proof (or they understand it perfectly, but simply hide their heads in the sand). And they try to imply to others that the proof does not exist at all, while the proof is there, they just try to make it ignored by others. Which is sad. Sure, it's much easier than sacrificing time and energy to understand the theoretical basics behind the practical statements of Sikret or myself. (Or to admit that they were wrong, and thus they would need to alter their mod completely.)

It's possible that sometimes we don't attach a complete proof for each statement, simply because it's very obvious, and Sikret also said it somewhere: one just have to search, and will find plenty of proof everywhere. For example, it's easy to find concrete examples to confirm the fact that G3FP's complexity isn't handled correctly and it causes bugs & problems, due to the insufficient verification process and due to too many dependencies that are manipulated unnecessarily. Ymarsakar's experience is just one. As Sikret has said, the number of bugs in each release of FP is another proof, forum topics are the evidence. Third, my long post about G3FP also lists several examples (consumed items, manipulated alignments etc.). So when CamDawg or anyone demands concrete examples, there are many. And the general source of problems will produce even more.

But it isn't just Ymarsakar who felt that my general explanations (e.g. in that post) are valid. It's enough to see others' replies as well. Some of them are players, who know less about IE modding and computer science than IE modders. Yet, they do notice the *proofs*, which existence is interestingly denied/ignored by those certain IE modders themselves. These players do see the consequences, and don't keep demanding "concrete examples" to hijack the situation from its real problem. Just see Iroumen's posts, or this post of luan. This post of Iroumen is also a very good example. Pure common sense. While I might explain things in a more complicated way sometimes, the aforementioned posts don't. I can recommend them to anyone who thinks there is no proof to my statements.