Compatibility of TS v6.11, and general problems, [Topic split by Vlad, move by Baronius] Options

[cmorgan]

Currently reviewing TS v6.11 code alongside DR code to look for what could be causing hassles. ETA on summary is 6 weeks unless I am sidetracked (plenty of stuff going on) - please feel free to drop off specific problems on G3 or PPG or SHS boards.

(IA compatibility is a completely different question, please see the readme in that mod for more information).

While each of us in the IE community are allowed their own opinions, I think a constructive way of addressing those questions would to be to go to the NPC mod makers in question, and ask the same question. My current Tutu and BG games run with a large mod loadout for testing, and they all work extremely well, including several BWL mods (TGCep1 and Herbs and potions, and Jastey's Slime Quest on Tutu). At SHS, there is a section of MegaModders who successfully handle various versions of BP/BGT/etc., incorporating TS and NEJ, etc, on the same installs as many other NPCs from PPG and G3, et al.

I understand the frustration of two opposing philosophies of modding, but I am afraid that the choice of words indicating that development of G3 mods makes them widely incompatible is neither accurate nor fair. Nor is the development process a short one; widespread testing among several platforms, with anywhere between a handful of beta testers and an entire set of 12 or so folks specifically providing testing and feedback (depending on the mod, of course). Cooperation among teams of coders and an open policy of producing joint public code and testing it, then writing up tutorials on it and updating it with feedback allows modders access to many helpers, making coding review a strong and vibrant process.

The way to get folks to be able to identify the specific incompatibilities and give information on tracking the difficulty down is to experience the problem, get a savegame, and write up what the specific dialogue/action was that was taken. Then the modders in question can attempt to isolate and fix whatever is causing the trouble (assuming they wish to be friendly enough to help eachother out).

[Tervadh]

I see a lengthy philosophical or perhaps political discussion in this thread, but no concrete examples of what the problem is, or more importantly, what the solution is.

Why is it, that the g3 no NPC-mods are incompatible with the Blackwyrmlair mod

With which Blackwyrmlair mod exactly?

If you mean that many of the G3 mods are often incompatible with other mods, it's because their development doesn't follow certain important guidelines (for example, that's why the G3 BG2 Fixpack may break almost any other mod in unfortunate cases), and BWL's more complex projects are more sensitive to these crucial aspects.

Can you give an some examples of these guidelines? As an independent modder (i.e., not affiliated with the staff of any particular forum), I'd be interested in seeing these.

Feel free to split this topic off, but I see no reason why something this important to the modding community should be kept to private discussions.

The problems with this are excellently reflected by the G3 Fixpack, which still hasn't been split to two mods up to now -- despite the fact it's now obvious for everyone that it ceases the possibility for mods even to be compatible with the original game by introducing and changing too many dependencies.

Obvious to "everyone"? It's not obvious to me. Some examples of what you're talking about here would help too.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time, and -- after I've seen the lack of interest -- neither intention to provide more material about how you can improve the process. Let's just keep up everything in the way it has been going so far...

This statement conflicts with this one:

However, incompatibility risks between mods could significantly be decreased if modders made a little bit more effort to learn (instead of crazily producing and extending mods).

If you're not going to provide any concrete examples, how are modders supposed to "learn" what you're talking about?