The dreaded G3 Fixpack Options

[Arkain]

Hi.

Well, to make a long story short: why is it not recommended? I'm curious why this fixpack seems to be the reason for many bugs or other problems. Because it's poorly modded? Because of the methods used to actually "fix" things? Something else?

[Baronius]

Sikret, your post is exactly what I meant with "prejudice", or call it rumour, or attitude. It is the same level as "IA breaks Cromwell's upgrade dialogue", a statement without any examples or proof.
Baronius, your post is more what I was hoping for, although it is so long I am not sure when I will be able to read it thoroughly.

I'm sorry about that jastey, but if you understood my post, you would understand Sikret's viewpoint as well. You can't handle them differently. My post provides the complete justification of refusing G3 Fixpack in its current state and methodology. A justification why mods which use many original game interfaces will never be in safety (unless G3 FP is properly altered, of course).

Sometimes certain things cannot be explained in 20 sentences. A mod is a software, and very many aspects of it can be examined from such a view. If certain modders (not you, because you said it's time problem, not approach) believe everything is simple, then they will be disappointed. Jastey, I strongly recommend you to read my post, because otherwise it's exactly you who has prejudice. When you don't understand something even in theory, how can you make a judgement? Expecting Sikret spend even more time to detail his post (which is quite clear already), instead of understanding my post. I said it would not be easy, but I'm sure it's not beyond the knowledge of most modders. Any questions are welcome, as I've said. I'm sure you will have time sooner or later -- if you really want it. If you don't understand anything, just ask.

Short, truncated, incomplete explanation (please read my previous post for the complete): Symbol of Amaunator broke Improved Anvil's upgrade, because it was automatically removed by G3 FP (when used in the game). Symbol of Amaunator was a dependency (but we could call it interface as well), a dependency of Improved Anvil. All other original game keys that are now consumed due to BG FP are all potential dependencies of other upcoming and future mods! How many symbols of amaunator are possible? What if a mod wants use to another consumed key? How can a mod author contemplate if he can't be sure that an alignment of a bug-free creature might be changed to the next version? These are all dependencies! Possible interfaces! These are not core FIXES, there are removed interfaces. They should be in a different component, with warnings! (And the problem is, if the approach doesn't change, more and more interfaces will be monopolized. A standard fixpack, especially in its core component, mustn't monopolize interfaces. It may break mods.)

P.S.: and yes, Improved Anvil removes or monopolizes many original game interfaces. Because this is a natural consequence of its goal. It's a mod which improves and refines. It's a complex mod, which changes very many aspects and parts of the game. Do you understand? This is why the same battle improved by IA can't be technically improved by another mod as well! Conceptual incompatibility -- yes, and it would have weird result. Actually, the broken or strange battle would be the consequence of technical reasons! (Both mods want the same interfaces: scripts, creature inventory slots and weapons, creature HP! Many of these are destructive interfaces. Scripts are different, they cause incompatibility on higher level, not on the level of data.)

Why Tower of Deception and Grey Clan Ep1 aren't known to be sensitive mods in case of compatibility? They use very few interfaces, they have few dependencies on the original game! (Still, as you can see, UB could break ToD by removing the reference to ToD's primary interface. Coincidences often happen.) On a side note, again for those who are more interested in software-related theories: one of the most important principles in Object Oriented Design is to minimize the "connection" (so-called: coupling) between different objects, and maximize the "connections" (so-called cohesion) inside an object (for each object). According to this, the best mod from this aspect uses exactly as many interfaces to the game as needed (it can't use less, or some of the mod's features won't work; if it uses more, the compatibility risk gets higher). (What are the objects now? The game and the mods. Of course, I simplified it a bit so it can easily be understood, but it reflects the point very well.)