Waterdeep, mod idea Options

[jastey]

Hi all,

following mod idea:

~Waterdeep for BGII!~

Needed:
+ area maps creators: at least 2-3 area modders who create the city areas according to the existing city maps of Waterdeep

+ modders putting in "fillers" (commoners, non-quest related city folks): 1 or 2 (could be quest writers, too)

+ quest writers: several

Quest modding outline:
Phase I: Area creation
Phase II: linking of areas and putting in common towns folk
Phase III: Quest modding

Each phase gives work for several years, I suspect.


Motivation: Why another big city, why Waterdeep?

+Big cities are a great pool of never ending quest possibilities: All those people on that small area. Family conflicts! Gangster activities! Problems of town authorities! Bureaucracy! Corruption!

+Waterdeep has a special flair of it's own, being "The City of Splendours" and having the "Undermountain" (quoted from wizards.com):

Undermountain: Before the founding of Waterdeep, a wizard settled on the slopes of Mount Waterdeep with seven apprentices. None know the origins of Halaster Blackcloak, the Mad Wizard, but he's said to have devised many spells now widely known. Halaster summoned and bound creatures from other planes to build his tower.

Halaster's creatures -- some of whom hunted humans by night -- dug extensive storage tunnels beneath his abode. At length, their tunnels broke into the large, grand Underhalls, old dwarven delvings of the long-vanished Melairkyn clan. Halaster eradicated the drow infesting the halls and moved entirely into the subterranean ways, leaving behind his tower. His curious apprentices, abandoned on the surface, explored the underground lair but found only traps baited with powerful magic (and enigmatic messages hinting that " true power" awaited them below). One by one, as their courage and capabilities allowed, the seven descended in search of their master. They found a strange, dangerous labyrinth where Halaster stored his treasures, experiments, victuals and necessities, magic items, and servants -- kept safe (he thought) from spying, theft, and attack.

As time passed and Waterdeep grew around the mountain's base, expeditions of armed adventurers into Halaster's stronghold grew numerous. He roamed planes to collect monsters and moved his operations deeper into the endless Underdark. Undermountain became known as a place of horrors, the lair of terrible monsters. Halaster himself grew old, mighty, and insane.

The warrior Durnan (NG male human Ftr18) and others who explored Undermountain spoke of its riches, hazards, and vast passages. Many who were desperate for wealth, bored, or escaping pursuit went down the shafts in Durnan's inn, the Yawning Portal. Some returned, now rich for life, and greed kept the adventurous coming. Some in Waterdeep whisper that the Lords still sentence defiant criminals to Undermountain, to die or find their own ways free.

Halaster, it is said, still roams the dozen levels and twice that many sublevels of Undermountain, watching from the walls. The Lords of Waterdeep turn a deaf ear to reports of entire temples below them (notably the Promenade of Eilistraee) and even an entire lawless trading community in the depths, Skullport. Sea caves are connected via great sling-hoists to the waters of Undermountain, allowing sea captains to smuggle cargoes to and from the drow and darker beings who dwell in wicked Skullport. The Lords forbid slavery in Waterdeep, but do not interfere when unsavory folk are smuggled out or down by this route.

Elminster described Undermountain best: "The most famous battlefield in which to earn a reputation as a veteran adventurer -- and the largest known grave of heroes in Faerûn."

I just couldn't resist thinking of quests for that one while reading it!!

+I think Athkatla lacks the "big city" flair of Baldur's Gate in BG1 (Which I liked very much) due to the reduced map sizes.

+Er, well... Ajantis' family lives there. -No, I didn't mean this serious.

I know that all of you modders are very busy, but could someone of you, especially the area specialists, imagine to be interested in joining and start working on the mod in some time, even if it's in 1, 2 years from now?

Could anyone imagine to be as excited as me about this mod idea? I'm addressing this question mostly to the modders out there, I guess there will be enough players when time has come!

I'd appreciate "yes" and "no" answers.

[Rabain]

Yes

I have been toying with the idea of trying a large city out just for the area creation experience.

I would like to see more areas of Athkatla if possible, i was dissappointed with this compared to BG city (which felt bigger or at least was easier to get lost in!)

[Baronius]

Athkatla was lame.
And my advice: don't make the same mistake as the creators of BG2 -- people normally won't run into you with their problems at every street corner! (Don't apply this type of quest-claiming)

So jastey, definitely: Yes

[jastey]

Thanks for the positive feedback so far!

I would apreciate it if you could specifiy whether your "yes" means you think it's a great mod idea or whether I can count you in to the modding team of the Waterdeep BGII project!

This is actually not only an introduction of a mod idea but a call for fellow modders as I can't ever do that on my own.

Especially area specialists as I have no idea about how to do that!

[SimDing0]

Given that Waterdeep's meant to be, what, 10 times the size of Baldur's Gate, you're going to need a LOT of area specialists...

[Domi]

I think it's still lacks 'why' as in 'why Bhaalspawn in BG2 would undertake a sea voyage to go to Waterdeep when he is prompted to go to the bloody Spellhold?'

Is it an alternative story-line, ie abandon Athkatla and get the hell away from Irenicus and all that CW's nonsense? Is it some way of making money when there are possibilities abound in Amn? Is it the 'After the End' reborn?

Area art is a major problem, I believe, and engaging into such a huge project (which including all the indoor areas will probably yeild close to 100-200 areas) without a definitive and engaging story-line to hold it together and drive PC's adventure, you run a risque of wasting time and resources to produce a setting for a bunch of assorted quests.

[Rabain]

(which including all the indoor areas will probably yeild close to 100-200 areas)

This has always been a problem with town/city mods, they almost become the size of a TC with the number of indoor areas you need!

I always thought SoA wouldn't have suffered too much having another city/large town to explore, Esmeltaran for example on lake Esmel would be suitable in my opinion (shameless plug for a gander at the Faerun Map).

Also with fairly unknown towns you are free to create intrigue and characters. With a well known city like Waterdeep you would be constrained by the known history/dnd canon.

Anyway I'm in for a city mod, whichever city it happens to be!

[jastey]

I know Waterdeep is a big city. I didn't say it would be one of those one-day mods! The city map size could be reduced like it was done for Athkatla, where only parts of the city wards are accessible, e.g.
And yes, there would have to be a good storyline for the PC to go there. One idea for forcing this on to the PC would be to make it an unplanned intermediate stop for the ship voyage: instead of guiding you to the spellhold the ship journey could lead to Waterdeep, and the PC has to solve several quests to get on to another ship that brings him/her to the spellhold. This is only one idea of a huge variety.

@Rabain: Great! I'll come back to you...
(Don't worry, I'm not expecting you to make the Waterdeep city maps all alone! I'll keep this mod idea in my mind, though, maybe later there will be time to start such a project.)

Thanks for your feedback so far!


If, by any means, anyone (preferably with the above mentioned abilities) is interested in joining the starting team of this mod idea please let me know!

This post has been edited by jastey: Dec 9 2004, 09:35 AM

[Domi]

And yes, there would have to be a good storyline for the PC to go there. One idea for forcing this on to the PC would be to make it an unplanned intermediate stop for the ship voyage: instead of guiding you to the spellhold the ship journey could lead to Waterdeep, and the PC has to solve several quests to get on to another ship that brings him/her to the spellhold. This is only one idea of a huge variety.

Unfotunately it won't work all too well, because Aran's ship was specifically chose for the reason that he *could* find his way to Brynnlaw. Spellhold is supposed to be hidden. If I may make a suggestion, I'd have Saunigian attack you on your way to spellhold, giving you a chance to play underwater city *before* Spellhold, and exit from the underwatersity into Waterdeep; There you will have to find pirate contacts who will take you to Brynnlaw; It will eliminate Underwater city as the way to UstNatha. Finding those contacts will be the main stpry-line, with sidequests being icing. Otherwise "After the End" scenario is better imo with the new tale about PC's adventures.

But Jastey, I do think that if you just want to build Waterdeep AE is a less painfull way.

[jastey]

if you just want to build Waterdeep AE is a less painfull way.

You are absolutely right, but that's not the only motivation.

[Meira]

My first thought was to place the Waterdeep scenario *before* SoA, after Baldur's Gate. The whole thing could end with Irenicus' men ambushing the player. Unfortunately that would not turn out very conveniently for the NPCs.

[Domi]

That difficulty can be aleviated somewhat if the BG2 starts in a quarter of BG1 and PC can chose from his/her BG1 allies to travel to Waterdeep (again, what is the reason? seeking refuge? trying to be lost in the crowds? just traveling?); Then they can be killed when the abduction occurs if they were not destined to end up in BG2. Irenicus Dungeon can be eliminated, since it will be too easy to go through it after a big player's sector (do not think anyone will miss it though). But again, you will need a tight storyline "what are we doing here?" for Waterdeep.

[Meira]

Well, I suppose that Charname & co. were going *somewhere* when they left BG and were ambushed. I don't remember if the SoA beginning movie states where you were going, though.

Anyway, the reason for Charname to go to Waterdeep from Baldur's Gate could simply be the party has been sent on a quest by the lords of BG, or something along those lines. Of course, if Charname does not accept the quest, no Waterdeep. However, assuming that it's not nicknamed City of Splendours for nothing, it's probably on pretty much everyone's cities-to-see-list. Like Paris.

[Rabain]

The problem with putting Waterdeep before Irenicus Dungeon would be leveling up. The city would be quite big and there would be little point going there if you don't get anything and everyone in the city would need to be low level to match the party and well I think it would be a little dissappointing.

I thought it might be good to put it after the underdark and have Bodhi flee to Waterdeep instead of back to Athkatla. You could simply catch a ship in Athkatla to Waterdeep and have a cutscene explaining your sea chase (kinda like when they pursue Dracula in that film version with keanu reeves).

I think then the party would be of a level that would allow a Waterdeep adventure to be challenging!

[Windwalker]

I don't like to sound pessimistic, but making adventures in Waterdeep is definitely an awful lot of work which I doubt could be ever be completed. Except of course if not all of Waterdeep will be used, but just parts (like Athkatla).

[Rabain]

Well big but not huge:

Say 6-10 city areas, average of 10 indoor areas per city area (add another 10 for good measure) = max of 120 areas, 110 of which will be indoor / minimum of 80 areas, 70 indoor! I think thats do-able, eh?

I think the area's could be designed pretty quickly, a lot of the indoor areas could be duplicated from other IE games and it only take minutes to re-design them!

The outdoor city area's could take longer but that's the eye-candy so its only fair!

As ever download size could be quite large, we'd be looking at weighing in at 100-200mb!

How many people would think a download of 200mb would be worth a visit to Waterdeep?

[Galactygon]

How many people would think a download of 200mb would be worth a visit to Waterdeep?

That fully depends on the content of the mod (aside from areas themselves, but including the latter).

-Galactygon

[SimDing0]

I should also point out that I think you're approaching the mod concept in the wrong way. "Wouldn't it be cool if..." followed by lots of area creation is going to leave you struggling for concepts to fill it. A better modding principle is to say "here's a quest outline; what do we need to implement it?"

[Domi]

I agree, but Jastey already replied that she has the main storyline in mind.

[jastey]

Did I? Er,.. I thought it would be some sight-seeing and.. shopping...

No, of course the mod will come with a great story, nicely fitted into the BGII-game (I like the idea of setting it after the underdark and before the elven city, and the PC will have a definite reason to go there!).
And yet I think that such a city gets it's charm from the loads of people you can meet and the side quests you will be able to pick up along the way. If this is not what you are interested in then downloading the mod won't pay off for you, I guess!