Help! Apprenti failed in making robe Options

[GotWangi]

... even though all three of them were alive when ordered to make the robe Would CLUAing the robe in create any problem with regards to the extended stronghold quest ?

[coaster]

I had to reload about 5 times before they successfully made the Robe.

[leonidas]

From my experience, you need to have a save game from before you actually instruct them to make the robe.

The chance of them not making it seems to be higher than them succeeding. So be patient!

Took me about 10 times last game I think.

[Sikret]

Would CLUAing the robe in create any problem with regards to the extended stronghold quest ?

Cromwell will not accept a cheated robe as an ingredient to forge "Memory of the Apprenti".

I may do something to increase their chance of success for the next release of the mod, though note that their current chance of success is exactly the same in vanilla game. I didn't touch or decrease their chance.

I may even add some content for the case in which they fail to forge the robe, so that from a role playing point of view you do not feel obliged to reload if they fail. If they succeed, you have the robe and can forge the new robe to see the new content in Docks district and benefit from the robe's power; and if they fail, you will be able to see some other new things. How's that? (Perhaps even no need to increase their chance of success)

This post has been edited by Sikret: May 27 2007, 07:07 AM

[leonidas]

Would CLUAing the robe in create any problem with regards to the extended stronghold quest ?

Cromwell will not accept a cheated robe as an ingredient to forge "Memory of the Apprenti".

I may do something to increase their chance of success for the next release of the mod, though note that their current chance of success is exactly the same in vanilla game. I didn't touch or decrease their chance.

I may even add some content for the case in which they fail to forge the robe, so that from a role playing point of view you do not feel obliged to reload if they fail. If they succeed, you have the robe and can forge the new robe to see the new content in Docks district and benefit from the robe's power; and if they fail, you will be able to see some other new things. How's that? (Perhaps even no need to increase their chance of success)

It's a good idea. I still think it should be 50/50 though.

I wouldn't feel obliged to lose a powerful item, even for new content, if it still meant there was only a slim chance of receiving it next game.

This post has been edited by leonidas: May 27 2007, 01:45 PM

[Mongerman]

leonidas, when you say you have to load from before you instruct the apprentices, do you mean before you instruct them to make the robe, or all the way from the beginning? (ie before you instruct them to make the dagger of <charname>)

[leonidas]

leonidas, when you say you have to load from before you instruct the apprentices, do you mean before you instruct them to make the robe, or all the way from the beginning? (ie before you instruct them to make the dagger of <charname>)

Just before you actually tell them to make the robe (after you receive the scroll of mislead or adhw). The outcome seems to be determined when you instruct them, or at least definitely not before then.

You don't have to go back to the start of the quest.

[Noelle]

Not all that sure, but I think if they say "it will take a few days" means the item will come out ok...but if they say "four or five days will do it" means the item won't come out ok.

[Sikret]

Their current chance of success (in vanilla game) is 20% (i.e. 80% chance to fail). If I change it, I will change it in a more dynamic and complex way than just revising the numbers. For example, a higher level protagonist (higher level teacher) should have better chances for his apprenti to forge the item. A pure mage should have better chances than a sorcerer or a fighter/mage in instsructing more successful apprenti. Higher int and/or wis may also have some effects. What's your opinion?

@Noelle
I think they say the same thing in both circumstances. You can't predict whether they will fail or not in that way.

[thetruth]

I think that Noelle is right. At least it works like this in my experience as well.
And it is mentioned also in D.Simpson's walkthrough:

Note: You can tell if they are going to succeed in
their tasks, if when they tell you how long it
will take they say it will take a "few days".
If they say "few days" then they will succeed,
if they say "4 days" then they will fail.
(this works for the final choice as well)

Their current chance of success (in vanilla game) is 20% (i.e. 80% chance to fail). If I change it, I will change it in a more dynamic and complex way than just revising the numbers. For example, a higher level protagonist (higher level teacher) should have better chances for his apprenti to forge the item. A pure mage should have better chances than a sorcerer or a fighter/mage in instsructing more successful apprenti. Higher int and/or wis may also have some effects. What's your opinion?

Yes I like this idea.

[leonidas]

Their current chance of success (in vanilla game) is 20% (i.e. 80% chance to fail). If I change it, I will change it in a more dynamic and complex way than just revising the numbers. For example, a higher level protagonist (higher level teacher) should have better chances for his apprenti to forge the item. A pure mage should have better chances than a sorcerer or a fighter/mage in instsructing more successful apprenti. Higher int and/or wis may also have some effects. What's your opinion?

@Noelle
I think they say the same thing in both circumstances. You can't predict whether they will fail or not in that way.

Yes, I like, dynamic outcomes are always good.

Imo, the less black and white a situation is, the better.

[coaster]

I think if any randomness remains, the temptation to reload to get a good outcome will be too great. Given the difficulty of IA battles, I find I need & use any edge I can get

I'd prefer a more deterministic approach - eg. you must be level X and/or Int Y for your Apprenti to successfully create the robe. But I appreciate this might deviate a bit too much from the approach in the vanilla game for some.

[Sikret]

I think if any randomness remains, the temptation to reload to get a good outcome will be too great.

No worries, I will change it in a way that randomness remains and reloading cannot help to change the result. If they fail the first time, they will constantly fail even if you reload 100 times. How's that?

[GotWangi]

Thanks for all the replies.

Sikret is there any way to bypass the variable check needed for forging MoA from a cheated apprenti robe ? I ordered the apprentices to forge the robe before I left for the brynnlaw, so referring back to that save game is really not desirable at all.

[coaster]

I will change it in a way that randomness remains and reloading cannot help to change the result. If they fail the first time, they will constantly fail even if you reload 100 times. How's that?

Yes, that sounds good to me, although with this approach I think it would be preferable to resurrect your previous idea of something else happening if they fail. Perhaps if they fail you could receive the "Ashes of the Apprenti" or something, which could be incorporated into a quest and/or another different item?

There are other random events in the game - eg. the Deck of Many Things - where I also think reloading should not change the outcome. The Deck is a pretty cheesy item given how easy Aesgareth is to defeat, and by reloading you can end up with a permanent 1 point stat increase PLUS 1 million XP (or permanent +10 HP if you prefer). Either Aesgareth should be much more difficult or the Deck should be tweaked, IMHO.

Cheers

coaster

[Sikret]

Yes, that sounds good to me, although with this approach I think it would be preferable to resurrect your previous idea of something else happening if they fail. Perhaps if they fail you could receive the "Ashes of the Apprenti" or something, which could be incorporated into a quest and/or another different item?

That's a good idea.

There are other random events in the game - eg. the Deck of Many Things - where I also think reloading should not change the outcome. The Deck is a pretty cheesy item given how easy Aesgareth is to defeat, and by reloading you can end up with a permanent 1 point stat increase PLUS 1 million XP (or permanent +10 HP if you prefer). Either Aesgareth should be much more difficult or the Deck should be tweaked, IMHO.

I agree. I will see to it.

By the way, I just finished implementing the new probabilities of forging the robe of the apprenti. Do you think that I should spoil the new probabilities (i.e. write them in the readme or in the forum) for all possible circumstances or do you want me not to spoil them (at least for a while)?

[coaster]

Do you think that I should spoil the new probabilities for all possible circumstances or do you want me not to spoil them (at least for a while)?

I would say let us have the fun of discovering them for a while People can always ask via PM if they are desperate, plus you have already given some hints in this thread about how the probabilities will work.

[K'aeloree]

Just so you know - in doing this, you'll be removing compatibility with the upcoming NPC mod the Mage Trio, I'm fairly sure.

[leonidas]

Yes, that sounds good to me, although with this approach I think it would be preferable to resurrect your previous idea of something else happening if they fail. Perhaps if they fail you could receive the "Ashes of the Apprenti" or something, which could be incorporated into a quest and/or another different item?

There are other random events in the game - eg. the Deck of Many Things - where I also think reloading should not change the outcome. The Deck is a pretty cheesy item given how easy Aesgareth is to defeat, and by reloading you can end up with a permanent 1 point stat increase PLUS 1 million XP (or permanent +10 HP if you prefer). Either Aesgareth should be much more difficult or the Deck should be tweaked, IMHO.

There's a few other things people like to reload a lot for, like the machine of lum the mad.

You can mess about with the buttons and get infinite amounts of 100k quest xp (between disintergrations and stat losses). Perfect way for sarevok to regain his fighter class.

[thetruth]

Yes I agree with leonidas .
The machine of Lum the mad can be exploited for unlimited XP (a good solution would be to make the machine give the 100k of XP just one time).

There is also another point in ToB where you can have unlimited XP.
If you attack the Fire Giants from the tower in Saradush (with ranged weapons + script and the AI on).