A short interview with Keldorn!, V4.3 news! Options

[Sikret]

Keldorn: Why did you involve me in your modding stuff, Sikret? You know that my duties in the Order do not leave much free time for me.

Sikret: I know Keldorn, and I apologize. But there is something I need to consult with you about.

Keldorn: Very well, say what you must and I will consider it and will give you my humble opinion.

Sikret: I have successfully implemented a new feature to Improved Anvil (v4.3) and I need your opinion to decide whether to actually add it to the next version of the mod or just forget and omit it.

Keldorn: Athkatla is a more dangerous place since the time you appeared. This much is certain.

Sikret: Thanks for the compliments, Keldorn!

Keldorn: I certainly didn't mean it to be a compliment. Now go on and tell me what you have in mind.

Sikret: The new feature is surely a surprise for you, but I'm not sure if players will take it as good news or bad news. The novelty is this: Enemy evil clerics will use their ability to turn undead if they see you or any other paladin in the party. (Of course, they will use it if they see summoned undead creatures, too)

Keldorn: Aye, this is indeed a surprise and dire news.

Sikret: I guessed so and that's why I seek your opinion about it. Many players love to play with you, not only for role playing factors, but also for the fact that your powerful dispel magic spell can be most useful in IA's battles. The problem with the new feature is that you will be in danger if high level enemy clerics see you in the party.

Keldorn: You should know very well that a devoted old paladin such as me is not afraid of danger.

Sikret: I know this very well, Keldorn! But since I don't want to add such a dangerous thing for paladins to the game without letting you know about it and without giving you the oppotunity to comment on it, I thought that it would be a good idea to ask you beforehand.

Keldorn: I think it's better to leave the decision to our leader, the well known Bhaalspawn to decide whether he wants to face such powerful enemy clerics or not. Let him express his opinion as well.

Sikret: Great suggestion! This topic is open for the Bhaalspawn to say his/her words.

Keldorn: Wait a minute, torturer!

Sikret: Yes?

Keldorn: Why don't you teach Cromwell to do something with my armor? Perhaps he can add immunity to turn undead to it.

Sikret: <Sigh>, even you, Keldorn?

This post has been edited by Sikret: May 17 2007, 08:09 PM

[Mongerman]

And what would the justification be? Would good clerics then be able to deal dmg to anti-paladins or fallen paladins (ie anarg) as well?

This post has been edited by Mongerman: May 17 2007, 07:33 AM

[Sikret]

The justification is in the rules set. Evil clerics being able to turn paladins is a well-known feature and a rule of AD&D.

The new feature is justified. My question is not about justification, but about taste and balance. Will players like this extra challenge?

[Toxeus]

Will players like this extra challenge?

Definitely yes since it matches D&D rules. If Viconia can turn paladins, why to not give such opportunity to enemy clerics?

This post has been edited by Toxeus: May 17 2007, 07:59 AM

[Mongerman]

The justification is in the rules set. Evil clerics being able to turn paladins is a well-known feature and a rule of AD&D.

The new feature is justified. My question is not about justification, but about taste and balance. Will players like this extra challenge?

Hmmm i didnt know that. So, why not if it is justified? Go for it i say

[Shaitan]

Nice little Interwiev here! I think it's a good idea somehow to give evil clerics Turn Undead ability a twist vs. say pallys.

[Fillian]

Resist Fear shouldn't prevent it (after all, it's invoking the divine power of an evil diety directly).

I really like the notion of the evil cleric also being able to take control of your summoned undead... really, good-aligned parties ought to not be messing around with necromancy anyway.

It always struck me as non-sensical that a paladin PC can eventually cast Create Undead as a third level cleric spell. Exsqueeze me? It ought to cost him or her their Paladinhood right then.

Sikret - I really enjoyed the Q&A, btw.

[rbeverjr]

I think we will often see a panicked paladin with that change. "Oh no, it's a powerful cleric, let me hide in the corner." Tor-Gal has nothing to fear from paladins - if he takes the time required to turn. Personally, I think that turning and taking control should remain with undead subjects. I think that it is appropriate that a higher level evil cleric will be able to establish control of any undead in the vicinity. But if the majority wants the paladin included, it's fine by me. A thief will wield my Holy Avenger.

If anyone is interested, a cleric can NOT turn a paladin in DnD 3.5.

[Sikret]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

In pnp AD&D, Evil clerics can actually turn paladins but if the majority of players don't like the idea, I will omit it and will stick to turning summoned undead creatures.

This post has been edited by Sikret: May 19 2007, 08:14 AM

[berelinde]

After giving this one considerable thought, I have to say that I am in favor of allowing evil clerics to turn paladins as a dispelable, non-damaging fear effect. I can definitely see the pure of heart quailing in fear in the presence of the power of the cleric's evil god. But I can just as easily see the protection from fear bestowed by a good cleric bolstering their faith in the face of this challenge.

As for inflicting damage, I am sure many will disagree with me, but there are plenty of things in IA that can hurt the party already. Nerfing the turning affect to include fear but exclude damage doesn't seem unbalancing. After all, this challenge would be *in addition* to the challenges posed by the already enhanced battles.

Don't forget that Keldorn or another paladin is often the tank of the party. Taking him out through a fear effect would be challenging, but fair. Exposing him to substantial injury as well, even if it is "save for half," would be a bit much, IMO.

The interview gave me giggle fits, though.

[leonidas]

It's hard to tell without actually experiencing the change, but my instinct tells me more challenge is a good thing, as well as the gameplay "curveball" it will provide.

[thetruth]

Actually Sikret doesn't have to change anything (except if he decides to make evil Clerics to damage Paladins).

Evil Clerics have already this ability in the game: Viccy and Keldorn

[Sikret]

however all results of D (destroyed) are treated as T (turned).

I had obviously missed this important point. Thanks for reminding it to me, rbeverjr!

So, inflicting damage will be omitted. (let me go an edit my initial interview with Keldorn too)

Does everyone agree with the change to allow evil enemy clerics to use their "turn undead" ability, then?

[Arkain]

Well, wouldn't be that much of a difference, I guess. Though one may doubt if it's that clever to spend one or more rounds turning paladins instead of casting spells, no?

[Sikret]

Well, wouldn't be that much of a difference, I guess. Though one may doubt if it's that clever to spend one or more rounds turning paladins instead of casting spells, no?

It's not just paladins. If I add this feature to the mod, they will use the ability against your summoned undead creatures too. Do you like to see that your summoned skeleton Warrior is now under the enemy's control and has turned hostile against you? Do you agree with the addition of this feature?

[Raven]

I would certainly like to see enemy clerics turning/commanding the undead the player summons. After all, I do it to the undead that they summon

Overall I don't think this will make a huge difference though as Skeleton Warriors are not as useful in IA as in the vanilla game or in other mods. By the time you get them they are not really strong enough to make much difference in the battles you're fighting. At least that's what I found.

[Sikret]

Actually Sikret doesn't have to change anything (except if he decides to make evil Clerics to damage Paladins).

Yes, without the extra damage (which was a wrong idea from the beginning), it's much easier to add this feature to the mod.

Thanks again for the helpful comments, everyone.

[Sikret]

Keldorn: I concur the final decision too, laymen!

[Arkain]

Well, wouldn't be that much of a difference, I guess. Though one may doubt if it's that clever to spend one or more rounds turning paladins instead of casting spells, no?

It's not just paladins. If I add this feature to the mod, they will use the ability against your summoned undead creatures too. Do you like to see that your summoned skeleton Warrior is now under the enemy's control and has turned hostile against you? Do you agree with the addition of this feature?

Sure. I (almost) never summon undead anyway