Teams and translation quality Options

[Baronius]

First of all, I would like to react to Rigel's post (see the general part of my post in its last paragraphs):

it's mold in the meaning of "moisissure" in French. That is why the golem is green.

I began modding by making my own trad of The Grey Clan cause i really liked it and was thinking "wow it's one of the greatest mod ever why its not already traduced in french!!!" and despite the fact that the Doghmatiques where working on it already with your agreement (i'm a rebel). So i've made the trad of The Grey Clan quite entierly and i traduced "mold" after big brainstorming by "moisissure " like you say . In the french current trad made by the Doghmatiques "mold golem" is traduced by "golem de mousse"; "mousse" means its like a bob sponge golem or something like that ; i'll speak about that detail to Graoumf the coordinator of the Doghmatiques or maybe you can change it yourself in the .tra if you want Baronius, after all it's your MOD; however the trad is good and it's a detail !

Here one exemple of a line from the current trad :

@77 = ~Animer le Golem de Mousse~

Too bad for The Grey Clan Episode 2 but maybe a day ! I know it's hard work to mod and it takes so much time...

See you one day when i'll got to ask for a prefix and i wish the best to you and BWL

Thank you for your kind words and reassurance about GCE2. One day when I both have enough time and motivation/mood to prefer (i.e. to give better priority to) GCE2 and my modding, I might return to it.

About the mold golem: yes, inform Graoumf about it, so they can update their own translation. I will update in GCE1 in the next update I'll release (I don't know when it will be; probably not in the near future), I think I have other things to include in it anyway (such as the Russian translation); currently, these things are available through the GCE forum to players.

The general part. My principles about translations:

• I find quality important in every respect (especially with the technical design and implementation of mods), however, I have no time to deal with translation verification. (It would be quite complicated to get reliable help for each given language, to get the quality of translations verified, which teams to prefer etc., it just wouldn't be worth it, obviously.) So I trust the skills of the translators who translate the mod to their own language.
• Due to the above, I usually say yes to the first translator who would like to translate my given mod (and unless there are serious counter-arguments to it, this translation will be considered the "official" one included in the mod).
• While I don't intend to spend time with the translation aspect (generally, I don't intend to -- and mostly cannot -- spend much IE modding-related time), I'm open to examine individual cases. So if a person believes that the team has made a really poor work in a translation to his/her language (or just has some suggestions) and his/her requests have been ignored by the original translator(s), he or she can contact me. As far as it's possible, I will examine these cases to find an alternative (for example, even my mod can contain two translations in the same language, and players can choose; of course, these are exceptional cases).

[Graoumf]

Thanks for the report, Rigel. I remember your pm indeed, you sent me just after the update of TGC.

But I think we have kept the meaning of the texts. Indeed, the french translation of Mold is "moisissure". But the english translation of "mousse" is Moss, which is green too. We also want to keep a short number of syllables. If it's ok for Baronius, we prefer kepting "mousse".
(I don't know why "mousse" was thinking you to sponge, whose french translation is "éponge" - Sponge Bob = Bob l'éponge in french -, but well ok)

The d'Oghmatiques are always open to any suggestions or typos' reports. We're not professionals, only volunteers fond of BG, like you, and we're not typo-free. So don't hesitate to report some texts bugs on our french forums: we'll be glad to explain or fix some translations.

This post has been edited by Graoumf: Nov 22 2009, 01:05 AM

[Baronius]

But the english translation of "mousse" is Moss, which is green too. We also want to keep a short number of syllables. If it's ok for Baronius, we prefer kepting "mousse".

The golem is made of mold, not moss (obviously not the same!). Translations should reserve the meaning of the grammatical entities, and not introduce undesired changes. "Moss is green too, just like the golem, so why not" isn't a good argument (I'm not quoting anyone here, merely just representing with the quote what happened). On a side note, about the ambiguity of "mold": a lot of words have several meanings in most human languages, this shouldn't be an obstacle for translators: they can just consult the mod author (i.e. me) to provide a description (meta-information) about the word(s) in question.

To summarize, my golem is made of mold, not moss. All translations should reflect this.

[Chev]

I think Baronius is correct about wishing for the most accurate translations. I know of more than one modder wishing that no one do translations, because of inaccurate translation/loss of meaning.

Remember that my friend Graoumf is French and they are very concerned about aesthetics of the French language.

[Graoumf]

We dithered a long time for this term, as Rigel. I would like to say it's not just a mistake from us.
Basically, Mold could be translated by "moisissure" or "humus" in french (the effect or the effect's consequence). If the golem has some acid's attacks, "moisissure" is better (and "Golem de humus" sounds strange to ears).

But you must know that some french words have many meanings in english. I want to say that for one word in french, there is several translations in english. It's due to the fact that our words are allowed by an entity (The French Academy) -> there is maybe 800 00 words allowed in french for some millions in english.
"mousse" for exemple is translated in english by : moss, foam and others... http://www.wordreference.com/fren/mousse ; it couls be "mousse" on a beer, the effect of a soap in a bath, and "mousse" can also be an effect of the "moisissure".
"moisissure" by mold, mould, mildew. This french term could designate terms in green, white (some rinds of cheese, as camembert, for example: you say rind, we say "moisissure") or brown... for me, "moisissure" is between white and brown.

If we must change our translation for one man, for each mods, well... it will be endless. Because all people will report some typos then, because they would translated such a word, or such a sentence differently. That's why I think it's better to talk about terms' problems between french people, before reporting it to a modder who isn't french and don't know, generally, all the subtility of the french language, which is natural.
About this word "mousse", Rigel was the only one to report in one year. As I say above, we have dithered a lot for this translation. Our choice was made (and I'm still thinking that "mousse" is the better term, because "mousse" can also be an effect of the "moisissure" in its organic behaviour and green attitude), and we wouldn't have changed the translation for one man.

To summarize, after all is said and done, modders must trust translators, or it would be endless.
The d'Oghmatiques are enough serious to change their translations if there is a typo. But it's not the case, here, according to us. But we can change if you want, it's not a problem.

Edit : I'm sorry if my tone could seem abrupt (it's not the goal, but english is not my mother language), but I'm not someone who sticks up some ideas with sugarcoat arguments. I would have to make this post before, I'm sorry, but it took me 2 hours to write it... if we must explain every time like this, it would be also endless. In french, it would take me 15 mn.

This post has been edited by Graoumf: Nov 22 2009, 01:19 PM

[Baronius]

I want to say that for one word in french, there is several translations in english. It's due to the fact [...]

I think my post was clear too when I wrote that there are more meanings of the same word in every language (and -- consequently -- those meanings might have different words in another language). This doesn't cause a big problem: if there are more meanings, pick the one which is the closest to the one you're translating. If "mousse" is the closest for green mold (and more or equally suitable than "moissisure"), then it is fine.

Indeed, translation issues should be discussed in the given group (translator community etc.) of the nation. The only thing I expect is that sentences, words etc. reserve their meaning, as I said. If any part is unclear, I can clarify it to translators. The human language is very very contextful, so usually nothing can be separated from its context when interpreting it.

[Rigel]

Rigel was the only one to report in one year

Maybe cause i was the only other who traduced The Grey Clan in french and if a player didn't play with english dialogs : he can't notice the difference !

Mold was one of the terms i pass most days to think about, and after much thinkings and advices it was really clear that the best french word for "mold" is "moisissure"

In the dialogs it saids that the golem is made of "green Mold" it means it's some "moisissures vertes", cause Moss is already green so it would be a pleonasm say it that way : like if you say some white milk !

That's true that mold can product some kind of moss so if it's a "Mold Golem" he probably got some moldy moss somewhere betwen the legs... but you doenst' call a Steel Golem a Rusty Golem just because it can become rusty or the author would have call it Rust Golem.

The important difference between Mold and Moss it that Mold is champs who can products some spores, projections and some dangerous gazes and that Moss is a vegetable, a plant.

The fact is that if you say it's a "Golem de mousse" (Moss golem) people can't know if this Moss come from Mold or if it's vegetable Moss.

In my opinion traduce "Mold Golem" by "Golem de Mousse" make me think seriously it's a vegetable moss golem and less seriously that it's a kind of humanoïd green sponge.

Other languages traductors traduced it by "Moisisssure" or "Moisi"

Golem di Muffa --> "Golem de moisissure"
Schimmelgolems --> "Golem de moissisure"
el Gólem Mohoso --> "Golem moisi"

Traducing by "Golem de mousse" you change the Baronius "Mold Golem" in "Moss Golem".

If we must change our translation for one man, for each mods, well... it will be endless

Don't think Baronius want change a trad just for fun or make pleasure to me but for all the players who will play his mod and to deliver the best quality !

[Graoumf]

Ok, we will deliver the .tra files with "moisissure" shortly, Baronius.

We invite people to discuss any translation issue or mods translated by the d'Oghmatiques group on our own forum, where a section called La chambre des scribes is dedicated to this kind of talk. Other translators can also come there to get help, advise or more generaly discuss about translations. We suggest any feedback regarding translations made by the d'Oghmatiques group is posted in that forum.

[Baronius]

They will be available for download in this forum. I'll update the mod's file with them when I release the next update (which won't be soon I suppose). That time, as I've said, I'll also add the Russian translation and possibly other things.