Class selection Options

[rbeverjr]

I’ve been doing some more experimenting with the classes. The Swashbuckler armed with the Judgment Day (which I still plan on not using) and The Truth longswords would be nothing less than spectacular. He would have Time Traps, good regular traps (which occasionally work), great AC, can use any scroll and most any equipment (it seems that Sikret’s NPC upgraded equipment are exceptions), has a terrific THAC0, and can whirlwind. His offense is almost equal to a kensai and his defense and versatility are far superior. Compared to the fighter-mage types he would still fall short, but I am avoiding playing those as the protagonist because they are so powerful. I'll probably avoid playing the swashbuckler too until I am bored with the kensai, because the swashbuckler can be a monster.

I traded in my fighter 7-mage and my ranger 7-cleric for a cleric-mage multiclass and auramaster. I’m not sure that this was a good trade. I thought that a high level cleric would be great, because in the normal game you get Skeleton Warriors quicker and more of them as you level. Furthermore, you can actually turn things like liches. Skeleton Warriors are no match for Sikret golems (nor or HLA summons really), and I can’t turn the undead that I would like to in IA. Still, the high level cleric gets many Greater Restorations and that’s the bomb, man. The typical cleric-mage combo cheese should be fairly ineffective in IA, but the cleric-mage should have a great defense. She also has a lot of spells. (I wish there was an extra ring of wizardry for Aerie.) The Auramaster should be helpful early because the druid levels quickly in a race for the Heal spell. Yes, Heal can work in combat with the auramaster. Bring the fighter to him and with the proper equipment his casting time is very short. The problem is that at higher levels the druid advances very slowly. What this means is less level 7 spells. Sikret did a great job of giving the auramaster some of the best arcane spells, as well as the druid spells. I just can’t have enough level 7 spells for this guy. Unfortunately, he has far fewer than the fighter 7-cleric. On the other hand, Sikret kindly gave the druid a way to defend himself with Perfect Camouflage, which should help him survive if monsters make it through the lines. I think that both pairs, the fighter 7-mage + ranger 7-cleric and the mage-cleric + auramaster, are good choices. I’m not sure which is best and will do some more playing with them. I invite everyone’s comments on these choices. Note this is on a team of 6. Kensai, swashbuckler, fighter-illusionist, and sorcerer are the other 4; so, I have 3 good melee guys and a powerful arcane.

[Sikret]

One other advantage of Auramaster is his early access to "Death Spell". Much sooner than your mage is 12th level, your auramaster will be able to cast the spell for you. Even later when your mage has access to the spell, having an auramaster in the party will let your mage have more free 6th level slots. You can even forgo choosing the spell for your sorcerer if you have an auramaster at your side. At higher levels, he can also add to the number of Ruby Ray spells available to the party (which as you know, is a very important spell).

[Sikret]

I’ve been doing some more experimenting with the classes. The Swashbuckler armed with the Judgment Day (which I still plan on not using) and The Truth longswords would be nothing less than spectacular.

The Truth long sword is not usable by thieves.

[rbeverjr]

I’ve been doing some more experimenting with the classes. The Swashbuckler armed with the Judgment Day (which I still plan on not using) and The Truth longswords would be nothing less than spectacular.

The Truth long sword is not usable by thieves.

Not even with Use Any Item HLA? Oh well, maybe Hesperus or Dragon Slayer longswords, the Scarlet Ninjato... I still think he's pretty cool.

[Sikret]

I’ve been doing some more experimenting with the classes. The Swashbuckler armed with the Judgment Day (which I still plan on not using) and The Truth longswords would be nothing less than spectacular.

The Truth long sword is not usable by thieves.

Not even with Use Any Item HLA?

Yes, not even with UAI ability.

Oh well, maybe Hesperus or Dragon Slayer longswords, the Scarlet Ninjato... I still think he's pretty cool.

Yes, the improved Cutthroat is not bad either and forging it is also easier than Hesperus. To forge Hesperus, you need to have defeated both Orcus and Dracolich (you shouldn't skip the maze this time ).

[rbeverjr]

To forge Hesperus, you need to have defeated both Orcus and Dracolich (you shouldn't skip the maze this time ).

I killed Orcus. I'm considering going back to the underdark and trying that maze. I hate mazes. Did I ever tell you that? What I would really like is coordinates of the dracolich, so that I can ask Scotty to beam me up!

Regardless of the weapons that the Swashbuckler uses, in the end there are certainly some very effective ones available to him, and he can use them well. I've actually considered cutthroat in this game, but am not sure that's where I want to spend my limited funds.

This post has been edited by rbeverjr: May 23 2007, 02:17 PM

[luan]

I chose a swashbuckler for my first IA game, but never did I realize it could be so powerful! I basically stumbled across a powerhouse.

Regardless, I'm in TOB territory and even with -26 AC and tremendous offensive power, things are still chopping me to bits!

I believe in my next IA game (v5) I'll choose something very hardy like the barbarian.

As for the Dracolich maze, I thought that was awesome! But... i'm quite a sadomasochist so it works out well

[thetruth]

The Swashbuckler armed with the Judgment Day (which I still plan on not using) and The Truth longswords would be nothing less than spectacular. He would have Time Traps, good regular traps (which occasionally work), great AC, can use any scroll and most any equipment (it seems that Sikret’s NPC upgraded equipment are exceptions), has a terrific THAC0, and can whirlwind. His offense is almost equal to a kensai and his defense and versatility are far superior.

The Swashbuckler can be a very powerful especially in defence but offensively he is not at the level of the fighter types.

His THACO will be worse than that of a plain Fighter and also he won't get the ApR fighters have (only 2 if he dualwields compared to the 3,5 of a dualwielding Fighter - 4,5 with the True GM patch).

Still much better than the plain thief but less effective offensively than the fighter classes.

[rbeverjr]

The Swashbuckler armed with the Judgment Day (which I still plan on not using) and The Truth longswords would be nothing less than spectacular. He would have Time Traps, good regular traps (which occasionally work), great AC, can use any scroll and most any equipment (it seems that Sikret’s NPC upgraded equipment are exceptions), has a terrific THAC0, and can whirlwind. His offense is almost equal to a kensai and his defense and versatility are far superior.

The Swashbuckler can be a very powerful especially in defence but offensively he is not at the level of the fighter types.

His THACO will be worse than that of a plain Fighter and also he won't get the ApR fighters have (only 2 if he dualwields compared to the 3,5 of a dualwielding Fighter - 4,5 with the True GM patch).

Still much better than the plain thief but less effective offensively than the fighter classes.

My swashbuckler has a THAC0 of -24 (level 36) and everyone's apr is 10 in whirlwind. I think that's pretty good. As he levels quickly, he can can build up a number of those whirlwinds too. I did nothing to cheat this THAC0; so, if no one else can get it, then my game has become screwed up some how.

This post has been edited by rbeverjr: May 23 2007, 11:24 PM

[luan]

THACO of -24? Perhaps you have other mods installed that are contributing/screwing up your THACO score? My level 39 Swashbuckler has no where near that... even if you add 10 to that lol.

[Shaitan]

What about insane items? Have you any of these?

[rbeverjr]

His items were made by Sikret or the stock game designers - call them insane if you want.

THAC0 empty handed and naked is -6
add scarlet ninja to and sword of mask +4
THAC0 -12, -8
Sikret's Sunlight helm
-16, -12
Sikret's Girdle of Cloud Giant Strength
-20, -16
Gauntlets of Weapon Skill
-21, -17
Sikret's Melodic Fury ring
-26, -22 --- Improved haste spell doesn't show a change in THAC0. The description of the item doesn't suggest a bonus in THAC0 either. Something may be wrong here. I never noticed this until the question was brought up.

Two of these items (helm and ring) come from Sikret's mini-mod, The Four, which I enjoy. If Sikret thinks this mod unbalances the play of IA, I can get rid of the items, but I will still play the mod. The same goes for my Tactics favorites (made more difficult now that they use scripts from Sikret); I'm currently not using any items from Tactics. The items listed above and this THAC0 don't make my game too easy though.

I killed the ancient dragon after a reload or 2, but the final battle over judgment day sword spanked my butt - repeatedly. I hate ambushes, but I don't think it would matter for me in this case....

To the point of the post, the versatility of UAI is a tremendous strength. Even dropping items from anywhere but IA and stock, you have a THAC0 of -18,-14. My kensai just made level 32 and has a +5 and +3 weapons for -23 and -16 using only IA and stock items. That's really close! The swashbuckler's THAC0 will be increased a little with better equipment later in the game.

Now if his naked THAC0/THAC0 with short swords is also messed up. I'll just cry, and then ignore it for this game. I hope that's not the case, because I have no idea why it would be wrong or how to fix it. As I said before, I did not alter (cheat) the THAC0. Well, other than I did install all the stuff that Sikret recommended, including the unnerfed THAC0 tables from Ease of Use.

[Sikret]

Please don't use any of the items from my mini-mod (The Four) for now. I will rebalance them for the next release of "The Four".

PS: The Melodic Fury ring (from The Four mod) is a cursed item and disables thieving skills button. Are you using the remove curse spell on your thief every time you need his skills? (Nonetheless the ring needs to be nerfed for the next release of "The Four".)

[thetruth]

Ehm rbeverjr there must be a (nice) bug in your game. Your THACO is too low even with those items.

THAC0 empty handed and naked is -6
add scarlet ninja to and sword of mask +4
THAC0 -12, -8
Sikret's Sunlight helm
-16, -12
Sikret's Girdle of Cloud Giant Strength
-20, -16
Gauntlets of Weapon Skill
-21, -17
Sikret's Melodic Fury ring
-26, -22 --- Improved haste spell doesn't show a change in THAC0. The description of the item doesn't suggest a bonus in THAC0 either. Something may be wrong here. I never noticed this until the question was brought up.

A naked Swashbuckler should have a THACO of 1 at 40 level. Don't know why yours has -6!
And the various Gauntlets in the game grant only +1 bonus to THACO.

I have never used the unnerfed THACO tables from EoU, but I can't imagine that they give such an insane bonus to THACO for thief types.

This post has been edited by thetruth: May 24 2007, 07:57 AM

[Toxeus]

I have never used the unnerfed THACO tables from EoU, but I can't imagine that they give such an insane bonus to THACO for thief types.

They don't. Thief's THAC0 becomes better for 1 every 2 levels, and his best THAC0 (1) he has at level 39. There is definitely a bug in rbeverjr game.

[rbeverjr]

I have never used the unnerfed THACO tables from EoU, but I can't imagine that they give such an insane bonus to THACO for thief types.

They don't. Thief's THAC0 becomes better for 1 every 2 levels, and his best THAC0 (1) he has at level 39. There is definitely a bug in rbeverjr game.

Well darn. Then maybe the swashbuckler isn't so great after all. Still, he seems decent if you need a thief. I don't know what the best solution is to this. I'm inclined to leave it. I could reinstall the game and mods, and start all over. But then I'm not sure that the problem will not reoccur, because I don't know how it happened in the first place. This is my first complete run through of an Improved Anvil game, and I want to go through ToB. I've not done ToB in 3 years or so, and never have done Ascension. So, I'm not inclined to start over.

I'm not an experienced IA campaigner like some of you; so, I don't think that this is going to make my game so much easier. I've probably reloaded at least 30 times already (I didn't even bother to keep count) making it through most of SoA and WK.

What disturbs me the most is that not knowing where this bug came from, I can't make sure it doesn't happen again.

[rbeverjr]

Please don't use any of the items from my mini-mod (The Four) for now. I will rebalance them for the next release of "The Four".

PS: The Melodic Fury ring (from The Four mod) is a cursed item and disables thieving skills button. Are you using the remove curse spell on your thief every time you need his skills? (Nonetheless the ring needs to be nerfed for the next release of "The Four".)

Yes, I use remove curse. But that's a moot point. The Four items go to the dump as you suggest. (But please let me know when you revise the mini-mod!) At least that will help make the swashbuckler's THAC0 a little more what it should be.

I am really bummed that my game is bugged. On the other hand, I'm going to have to play this game many more times before I am satisfied with my own tactical ability. I doubt that I will be satisfied before Sikret comes out with version 5.

This post has been edited by rbeverjr: May 24 2007, 01:40 PM

[Ardanis]

Swashbucklers get +1 Thaco, damage, AC for each 5 levels.

[Toxeus]

LOL. Sorry, rbeverjr, it seems that we all forgot about this swashbuckler's advantage

[thetruth]

I didn't forget the kit's bonus to THACO (that's why I wrote THACO 1 at 40 level).
It's that I couldn't expect that the unnerfed THACO tables of EoU would continue the THACO progression of every class until the XP CAP.
It seems quite overpowered to me.