I have rewrote this 5 times because I am non too happy with the extreme game balance problem.
Is there anyway to tone down the power and or numbers of the nuclear skeleton warriors I am facing (at 9th-10th lvl) that does not include playing outside of core rules!

HOLY FAK!

You see I really hate having to cheat.

(PS,,, Vlad what were you thinking)?


(EDITED TODAY GO TO PAGE 3)

This post has been edited by Bereth Darkides: May 15 2008, 07:35 PM

Don't cheat either, cause I think there is an anti-cheating ghost that makes weird things happen.

What else do you have installed?

@Bereth Darkides
When I first started playing NEJ I would have agreed with you. Way back when it was only at 4.2 and part of the Mega install you were dead meat if you didn't know some tatics. It is difficult but doable. The walk thru has some tatics for those difficult areas. Remember they are undead use other tools then just hack 'n slash.

It was meant to be difficult and different, not a walk in the park. That is why better players want the tactic mods. I have to laugh about the first time I tried one. I thought what the h--- has happened to me?

Also remember it is your game and who are you cheating when you're playing the game the way you like it or set it up. The computer doesn't care and your the only player. I follow my own rules and play it the way I enjoy it. It is my virtual world and I get to be god in it. I ctrl-y'd many of the enemy till I got better, now they are not that tough but still lose to them now and then.

Try this instead of complaining. Step in the room if you can not take on all six or 10 yet crtl-y 3 of them, now it is set up for what you can handle right now. Next time try it with more and so forth but each to their own. Have fun.

Actually a good process that helps is clear one cave at a time. After each cave leave back to Kuldahar to rest. Keep stocking those yeti pelts and loot to sell. After each cave you can stock some gold for Prot. against Undead and other items in the shops. Once Hrothgar gets that nice throwing axe (?) vs.undead, it will be a bit more on your side. Keep your distance also so you can go in and then back out of the caves to lure 4 or 5 rather than have all 10 or 12 see you.

This post has been edited by Hoppy: Apr 11 2008, 01:46 PM

Well, it's challenging, for sure, unless you use Protection from Undead scrolls. Like Sikret mentioned, this scroll is the real cheating. So, instead of CTRL-Ying your way and loosing XP, try use those scrolls. Good luck!

Lol,,, Challenging...pretty funny there Vlad.. I actualy fealt like a big "T-Bone Steak" who just walked into the SFS 49ers barbeque celebration.

Umm,, Ya,, I had only two three fellows with magical weapons at 9-10 lvl.. vs 13 Skeleton Warriors.. ya ok!

But you know what, I won...Why......because I know how to fight,,,,and run.

:-)

BRING IT ON B****....lol

This post has been edited by Bereth Darkides: Apr 11 2008, 05:49 PM

I have, SoA+ToB+Patch+Baldurdash+TS7.02+Patch+NeJ2+Patch, eh!

Cannuck,, the home of WWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPP,
beer, hot women, and more beer!

Um,,,,,wait a minute,,, isn't this considered,,,, um,,, cheating lol.
I actualy won the battle by being very, very fast on my feet. ANSWER:

Double hasted, Stoneskin,Protection fr. Evil 10' rad., Defensive Harmony x2, Turn Undead, Flameblade+Holy Power, and a few other little helpers. oh,,, and a LOT of running!

:-)



This post has been edited by Bereth Darkides: Apr 11 2008, 05:38 PM

Since when does Protection from Undead scroll protect you from simply being hit? lol.
It only protects you from effects, not from getting hit. That was my initial problem....I'll put it too you this way.........


SLAPP....PIFF..arg...SMACK....boo noooooSPLAT......You basta...BOOM....analnathrak uthba speth...KAPOW....heeelp me!

I had to avoid the SLAPP, PIFF, SMACK, SPLAT, BOOM and KAPOW! times 12!

It required a lot of ducking.

This post has been edited by Bereth Darkides: Apr 11 2008, 05:45 PM

@Bereth Darkides
Cheating?????
Why would that be cheating and by who's standards. It is all in the game. Bone Cleaver could be called cheating then because when Hrothgar throws it at the Undead it can kill them with one hit. The more I play it is not how I can kill the most but some times what is the worst crew I can have and still win the battle.

I would call it a damn good stategy for what you faced. And congratulations for getting by the first group. Don't get to cocky or the next group just might take ya out. (haha)

Running - I always heard "Learn to run to live and fight another day."

Well with my strategy I was able to clear three caves before I had to sleep. I managed to get the Axe which helps for sure (got it from clearing the first cave). I'll be going at it tonight.

Should have seen my party by the time I went to sleep. All portraits were 95% red..lol!

I hear ya. I tend to rest more. After awhile you just hate red. Crud the monsters in the open do enough to at first when your not looking for them.

Oh, you just started wait till you go down, down and down deeper into the caverns. I tend to like NEJ alot and am waiting for the next installment. Glad to to hear your having fun.

when you get really good, let us know what it is like on INSANE

Since BIS decided it is so. Didn't you that? It makes your presence completely ignored by any kind of undead. You may hit them, crash them, do what you like - they just simply do not react.

Yep, I had to laugh about that one at first. I kept thinking it was Protection from Evil and kept thinking it wasn't working. I would cast it and walk in the room and run back out half dead.

Here's the Id for it:
A Protection from Undead scroll invokes a 3' radius circle of protection around the target. It protects the person within from all physical attacks made by undead such as ghasts, ghosts, ghouls, skeletons, wraiths, zombies, etc. It does not offer any protection from magical attacks, however, and will wear off with the passage of 10 turns.

I like a stituation that finally makes use of a spell, that normally you might toss, in order to get through it.

Not sure if I like that. I still prefer the norm Protection from Undead. It protects you from magical effects but not damage. I guess I'd rather be slapped around a bit rather than getting level drained.

Been playing D&D for a very long time. I even DM'd at Gencon once many years ago.
(Classic Gazeteer if you remember what that was).

:-)

This post has been edited by Bereth Darkides: Apr 12 2008, 04:31 PM

I pretty much agree with everything said here. Cheating is definitely a sensitive subject, especially since EVERYONE has a different opinion on what constitutes cheating. Multi-player aside though, this is a one-player game. The one and only thing that matters is personal enjoyment.

I personally love frustratingly hard battles, play on Core exclusively thanks to my oldschool DnD background, (only gain 1hp from that level up? Sucks to be me!) and pretty much play w/ a no-reload policy if possible. (level-drains, deaths, unsuccessful scribes do not get reloads) However I use ctrl-J all the time. I don't find any enjoyment whatsoever watching my characters walk back out of a cleared dungeon or taking the long way to a point that I know has nothing in between. Does this make me a cheater? Hell yeah it does! Do I care? Not one bit.

If this Mod ends up being too difficult to enjoy, do whatever it takes to make it more enjoyable. I'm sure Vlad and the rest would have it no other way.

My Idea of what cheating is: (Pretty self explanitory)

1 )Shadowmastering Items, scroll, skills/attributes, spells, etc. anything not found through hard arduous adventuring.
2) Consoling in goodies to help or remove enemies during/before battle.
3) Downgrading the game to anything less than Core Rules.
4) Unballanced battles by Creator/DM that might seem funny at first, but in all reality, if he were to try that with paper and pen he would find himself playing alone very, very quickly!

5) CTRL-?
6) Anyhting not earned or obtained through normal game play,, as what finishes this entire point; Why else do you play if not for this exact reason.

By no means is this a complaint, I am having fun since I was smiled at by big bad skelly's looking for new skins, for use for a new coat!

OK,, I'm at Dragons Eye;

Well..man oh man. Honestly. This is slowly becoming tedious and very much less fun than I hoped. First off, the ice trolls.
I arrive surrounded and they can cast slow (every round "oh and I get NO SAVE, + they do a lot more damage etc.) and ability score drain = souped up.

Next; Lizards.. a lot tougher,, quite a bit tougher.

Next; the Beatles= WTF...they have their original power + poison and stun + immune to certain area of effect spells.

Honestly, having to sleep after every single battle, is ridiculous. Guys, WTF ever happened to game balance. Has anyone here ever DM'd a paper and pen Dungeons and Dragons game? Sorry to say this but I'm not enjoying it.
Doesn't this defeat the purpose of making a mod that people will enjoy?

Don't get me wrong, I'm gonna play it, I'm stubborn enough for it, and I'll get through it, but only because I'll want to play a normal core game with respectable game balance, ie. now I just want to play the original game. Sorry Vlad. What else do you want me to say? What did you expect man? Why not just put a Dragon in front of every door, I mean hey why not? I'm sure eventually after reloading and reloading that it will eventually fail a saving throw.

Right? I mean, in essence it is what you've done. You realize this right?

Tactics? nah you can't use this argument on me. I know more combinations of spell effects than most would even think to do. I memorized every DM guide ever made. I was recognized by TSR years ago for my extensive background and knowledge. I know some people will get quite upset with me making any kind of negative comments it's ok I fully expect it, (ho hum). Some people will even consider me a noob (if only they knew how long and how much experience this dude has. In fact I bet I've been playing this game longer than some of you have been alive).

I'm a Solid 31 year veteran of DnD. I know more about AD&D than most creators of the game. I had memorized 50% of the entire Magica Arcana made in the 90's dudes.
I'm "almost wasting" hours of limited time (because of my love for the game itself) trying to play something that should take me 1 hour and it's taking me 5 hours of game play.

This is a complaint of sort. This brings me absolutely no joy in it's saying. I'm truly sorry, I'm so very, very sorry!
Somewhere along the line some part of the modders mind, I think was to "test" people on each battle. But in so doing, forgot about game balance.

Here, and I do hope you take this next point very constructively.

This is game balance:

At 10 lvl, a character is only then becoming skilled enough, to almost get out of any scenario alive "Based on" balanced creatures on a one to one basis. ie 10 lvl barbarian with a +2 weapon could take on a Shambling Mound (*Monster Manual 2- 1984 release for lookup*), This battle would come down to blows with one of the victors left very bloody but yet still alive.
Consider a Wizard at the same lvl vs 10 normal "Bombast Beatles". Still a doable battle but will get desperate once saves are made and wizards offensive spells start to run out.
You see, this is game balance, and it's a lot more fun.

Lastly and my most important point, consider the original game. It wasn't just superb in it's creation, but WOW, it was PERFECT in it's game balance. The right lvl characters vs enemies. Honestly this is an indisputable fact, and also lends to it's EXTREME success and popularity. BG, is and was and still is the most perfect game ever created for it's accuracy.

Why did you forget or choose to ignore these facts?

I want to play core rules, but your creatures aren't core rules set! By no means Vlad and to others, is this an attack on your efforts and work spent in doing this, but rather a point of fact that questions simply; why didn't you just base it on AD&D stats for balanced game play? You could have, but you chose not too. I think you made a bigger mistake than you realize. The success of this mod, could be better in doing so. Heck I could even give you some REAL tactical challenges to create that would still be balanced without souping up anything.

PS,, I really appreciate all the work and effort, so I hope you realize how badly and how long I've waited to play it. I know on the other hand that TS isn't quite this bad in it's game balance (unless you recently souped up everything in that as well) so I'm eager to play that again. (still your best work).
So please do not take my words too hard please. I'm still a fan!

Anyway,, back to the game!

This post has been edited by Bereth Darkides: Apr 16 2008, 07:12 AM

PS,, I'll continue reports on bugs (no not beetles) etc, but not on game balance as I believe I've pretty much made that point well enough, lol.

I will Venture on :-)